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Computer Science Graduates are the Least Employable in the UK

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Re: Computer Science Graduates are the Least Employable in the UK

#41

Post by Alan01252 »

crntaylor wrote: post #18
sean-duffy wrote: post #2

After just the other week observing a few articles on HN regarding the situation with jobs for CS graduates in the US, one article stating a 2:1 ratio between the number of available jobs for developers and the number of developers, this came as much of a surprise to me, as well as being pretty disconcerting since I'm in the UK and planning to study CS next year. I'm very interested to hear the opinions on this from…

If you study at a good university, and learn useful things while you study, and build cool things in your spare time, then you will have no problem finding a job. The company I work for routinely pays £100k+ ($160k+) per year to fresh computer science grads if they're really good.

I find this figure hard to accept. £100k+ a year for a developer with no experience?

I've been doing software development for a while now, and know more than a few developers, and I guarantee you not one of them started on anywhere near £100k a year.

£100k a year is around what I know experienced contractual developers earn working for big Canary Wharf banks.

If this is true, then please let me know the name of the company and I'll apply right now.

Re: Computer Science Graduates are the Least Employable in the UK

#42

Post by mickeyp »

Argentevenin wrote: post #25
ig1 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking as someone who used to hire low-level developers in the financial sector (i.e we could pay them an above average salary) I'd disagree. There's only a handful of universities now which teach C to a decent level, and if a candidate doesn't know C already it's very hard to tell if they'll be able to conceptually handle pointers and indirect referencing. So there's actually a very small pool to recruit from comp…

A lot of finance companies have rejected me for placements for low A level grades despite high firsts in all my CS modules, solid extra curricular's etc...

Understand the key word here being "placements" whereas we were talking about a, sadly, today, niche skill: low-level programming. Generally finance companies are exceptionally picky and the only way to get a job in finance is to have worked in finance. Yes, that is indeed a catch-22.

All I can say is keep at it but remember, especially for grads, they get a million CVs.

Re: Computer Science Graduates are the Least Employable in the UK

#43

Post by ig1 »

Argentevenin wrote: post #35
ig1 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with unit grades is that they're not standardized across universities, so what might be a first at a lower-tier university might be a 2:2 equivalent at a top-tier university. Hence companies relying on A-Level scores and university reputation when filtering. What ECs do you have ? - that's probably your best bet of getting visibility. Assuming you're a second year student you might want to apply for a GSo…

ECs are Formula Student (Mostly embedded systems stuff, also did a lot of sponsorship getting organisation type stuff last year), Cyber Security Challenge UK (Got invited to a conference, have been told to keep the dates of two more face to faces clear...) and general member for one of the uni's bigger societies.

I'd recommend contributing to an open source project that aligns with your interests, as that's much more understandable and verifiable to someone reading your CV.

Re: Computer Science Graduates are the Least Employable in the UK

#44

Post by njs12345 »

crntaylor wrote: post #18
sean-duffy wrote: post #2

After just the other week observing a few articles on HN regarding the situation with jobs for CS graduates in the US, one article stating a 2:1 ratio between the number of available jobs for developers and the number of developers, this came as much of a surprise to me, as well as being pretty disconcerting since I'm in the UK and planning to study CS next year. I'm very interested to hear the opinions on this from…

If you study at a good university, and learn useful things while you study, and build cool things in your spare time, then you will have no problem finding a job. The company I work for routinely pays £100k+ ($160k+) per year to fresh computer science grads if they're really good.

Really? Even my friends (from Cambridge) who went into finance aren't earning nearly that much in base salary. Is that including bonuses and other benefits?

Re: Computer Science Graduates are the Least Employable in the UK

#45

Post by mickeyp »

simonh wrote: post #26
mvc wrote: post #20

The problem for UK devs is that everything is so London centric. I bet there's lots of open positions there and lots of talented but unemployed (or underpaid) developers in Liverpool, Newcastle and Glasgow. I used to be one of them until I moved. I've seen attempts to try and create a UK equivalent of "Silicon Valley". Where do they put it? London!!

Frankly, any attempt to put it anywhere else would just end up with a split between the anointed location and London. There's already a strong telecoms presence in west London along with a fair few IT companies anyway. When you have a genuine choice then fine, choose another region, but when the choice has already essentially been made by the market, why introduce potentially damaging artificial distortions to try an…

The other issue with Cambridge is that they think they can get away with paying people -- senior people -- £35,000 a year\. Even if you hate London you're better off contracting in the midlands where you can probably get £350/day if you're not completely hopeless.

\ based roughly on my experience investigating the job market there a few years ago.

Re: Computer Science Graduates are the Least Employable in the UK

#46

Post by crntaylor »

Alan01252 wrote: post #41
crntaylor wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you study at a good university, and learn useful things while you study, and build cool things in your spare time, then you will have no problem finding a job. The company I work for routinely pays £100k+ ($160k+) per year to fresh computer science grads if they're really good.

I find this figure hard to accept. £100k+ a year for a developer with no experience? I've been doing software development for a while now, and know more than a few developers, and I guarantee you not one of them started on anywhere near £100k a year. £100k a year is around what I know experienced contractual developers earn working for big Canary Wharf banks. If this is true, then please let me know the name of the c…

That number includes bonus - but it's certainly accurate. These guys might have no commercial experience, but they certainly have plenty of programming experience (and are typically top 1 or 2 in their year at university).

I've emailed you the name of the company using the contact form on your website. We look forward to your application!

Re: Computer Science Graduates are the Least Employable in the UK

#47

Post by dr_doom »

Argentevenin wrote: post #35
ig1 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with unit grades is that they're not standardized across universities, so what might be a first at a lower-tier university might be a 2:2 equivalent at a top-tier university. Hence companies relying on A-Level scores and university reputation when filtering. What ECs do you have ? - that's probably your best bet of getting visibility. Assuming you're a second year student you might want to apply for a GSo…

ECs are Formula Student (Mostly embedded systems stuff, also did a lot of sponsorship getting organisation type stuff last year), Cyber Security Challenge UK (Got invited to a conference, have been told to keep the dates of two more face to faces clear...) and general member for one of the uni's bigger societies.

I don't know what any of those academic terms mean but what have you coded and are most proud of?

Re: Computer Science Graduates are the Least Employable in the UK

#48

Post by coopdog »

TeamMCS wrote: post #38
yardie wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume by talented you mean experienced. There is also the other talent of showing promise, but most companies don't bother with that and prefer the ones that the ones that come out the womb as objc rockstars.

I see this a lot . Everyone expects a rock star who knows their entire stack. If you don't know their stack to the nth degree you are classified a junior and get paid 30-45k which is a joke in London. People like myself end up self-employed earning multiples whilst hearing on each job, "would you go perm for xyz?" (that boat has usually sailed). The reality is companies need to get the right people in. Send them on c…

That's the same realization I came to, that it's actually less risky to be a contractor than an employee.

Better to be paid more and have a nest egg for the rainy days than live day to day on a salary and always fear the entire department getting chopped one day for reasons beyond your control.

Re: Computer Science Graduates are the Least Employable in the UK

#49

Post by crntaylor »

njs12345 wrote: post #44
crntaylor wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you study at a good university, and learn useful things while you study, and build cool things in your spare time, then you will have no problem finding a job. The company I work for routinely pays £100k+ ($160k+) per year to fresh computer science grads if they're really good.

Really? Even my friends (from Cambridge) who went into finance aren't earning nearly that much in base salary. Is that including bonuses and other benefits?

It's including bonus, but no other benefits.

Re: Computer Science Graduates are the Least Employable in the UK

#50

Post by crntaylor »

mickeyp wrote: post #45
simonh wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frankly, any attempt to put it anywhere else would just end up with a split between the anointed location and London. There's already a strong telecoms presence in west London along with a fair few IT companies anyway. When you have a genuine choice then fine, choose another region, but when the choice has already essentially been made by the market, why introduce potentially damaging artificial distortions to try an…

The other issue with Cambridge is that they think they can get away with paying people -- senior people -- £35,000 a year\ . Even if you hate London you're better off contracting in the midlands where you can probably get £350/day if you're not completely hopeless. \ based roughly on my experience investigating the job market there a few years ago.

I know developers with 3-5 years experience in Cambridge earning significantly more than that. Redgate Software, for example, pays its junior (i.e. zero experience) engineers £35k / year.
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