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Computer Science Graduates are the Least Employable in the UK

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Re: Computer Science Graduates are the Least Employable in the UK

#31

Post by ig1 »

Argentevenin wrote: post #25
ig1 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking as someone who used to hire low-level developers in the financial sector (i.e we could pay them an above average salary) I'd disagree. There's only a handful of universities now which teach C to a decent level, and if a candidate doesn't know C already it's very hard to tell if they'll be able to conceptually handle pointers and indirect referencing. So there's actually a very small pool to recruit from comp…

A lot of finance companies have rejected me for placements for low A level grades despite high firsts in all my CS modules, solid extra curricular's etc...

The problem with unit grades is that they're not standardized across universities, so what might be a first at a lower-tier university might be a 2:2 equivalent at a top-tier university.

Hence companies relying on A-Level scores and university reputation when filtering.

What ECs do you have ? - that's probably your best bet of getting visibility. Assuming you're a second year student you might want to apply for a GSoC on a low-level project.

Re: Computer Science Graduates are the Least Employable in the UK

#33

Post by TeamMCS »

Argentevenin wrote: post #28
ig1 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where have you applied so far ?

Arm, Qualcomm, various defence companies, Siemens(rejected A-level grades), IBM(rejected A-level grades), Microsoft(rejected A-level grades), HP, broadcom, BAE, Detica, Google for low level jobs.

Any low level companies?

Re: Computer Science Graduates are the Least Employable in the UK

#34

Post by [deleted] »

Argentevenin wrote: post #25
ig1 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking as someone who used to hire low-level developers in the financial sector (i.e we could pay them an above average salary) I'd disagree. There's only a handful of universities now which teach C to a decent level, and if a candidate doesn't know C already it's very hard to tell if they'll be able to conceptually handle pointers and indirect referencing. So there's actually a very small pool to recruit from comp…

A lot of finance companies have rejected me for placements for low A level grades despite high firsts in all my CS modules, solid extra curricular's etc...

[deleted]

Re: Computer Science Graduates are the Least Employable in the UK

#35

Post by Argentevenin »

ig1 wrote: post #31
Argentevenin wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of finance companies have rejected me for placements for low A level grades despite high firsts in all my CS modules, solid extra curricular's etc...

The problem with unit grades is that they're not standardized across universities, so what might be a first at a lower-tier university might be a 2:2 equivalent at a top-tier university. Hence companies relying on A-Level scores and university reputation when filtering. What ECs do you have ? - that's probably your best bet of getting visibility. Assuming you're a second year student you might want to apply for a GSo…

ECs are Formula Student (Mostly embedded systems stuff, also did a lot of sponsorship getting organisation type stuff last year), Cyber Security Challenge UK (Got invited to a conference, have been told to keep the dates of two more face to faces clear...) and general member for one of the uni's bigger societies.

Re: Computer Science Graduates are the Least Employable in the UK

#36

Post by kleiba »

Aaronneyer wrote: post #24
Eliezer wrote: post #13

I wonder if this is due to graduating people who can't code Fizzbuzz.

My thoughts exactly. Most schools teach Computer Science, very few schools teach you how to actually program. People have to learn that on their own, and many people don't, and as a result, aren't able to actually program.

That's because Computer Science != Programming.

Re: Computer Science Graduates are the Least Employable in the UK

#37

Post by Argentevenin »

mathieuh wrote: post #30
Argentevenin wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of finance companies have rejected me for placements for low A level grades despite high firsts in all my CS modules, solid extra curricular's etc...

What A levels did you get? I'm doing them now. It's looking like I'm going to end up with AAB, kind of disheartening seeing people around me with A*AA though...

I got BBC(Maths,Physics,Chem), My attitude to A-levels wasn't exactly great...Its not that bad tbh - Work hard at uni and you'll easily leave people that did much better then you at A-level behind in the dirt :) Also AAB gives you 340 ucas points which would be fine for every job I've seen.

Re: Computer Science Graduates are the Least Employable in the UK

#38

Post by TeamMCS »

yardie wrote: post #7
cbgrey wrote: post #4

And yet as an employer (not in the UK though) I have a hard time finding talented developers.

I assume by talented you mean experienced. There is also the other talent of showing promise, but most companies don't bother with that and prefer the ones that the ones that come out the womb as objc rockstars.

I see this a lot. Everyone expects a rock star who knows their entire stack. If you don't know their stack to the nth degree you are classified a junior and get paid 30-45k which is a joke in London. People like myself end up self-employed earning multiples whilst hearing on each job, "would you go perm for xyz?" (that boat has usually sailed).

The reality is companies need to get the right people in. Send them on courses, get them involved and pay them properly. Use contractors to fill the gap, pay the high rates then remove them when 'the right people' are ready (and/or offer contractors an appropriate compensation to go perm)

[edit] I think the London market is way out of wack. I've had offers to go perm at the equiv of 3~ months freelance pay, it just doesn't make even remote sense. Even more so when uncertainty is rife.

Re: Computer Science Graduates are the Least Employable in the UK

#39

Post by CWIZO »

matheusalmeida wrote: post #11

Living and working in the UK for over a year now as a Software Engineer in a medium-sized company I see this article as a bit of a shock because every month I'm aware of available positions (including graduates) for developers that "want to get their hands dirty", i.e., working on core software tools like compilers and linkers and despite working closely with universities it's not easy to find new recruits willing to…

Hey, do you have an email/twitter I could contact you on? I'd like to ask you a few questions, if you don't mind. Or you can shoot me an email (it's in the profile) if you prefer.

Re: Computer Science Graduates are the Least Employable in the UK

#40

Post by mickeyp »

ig1 wrote: post #23
mickeyp wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, low-level roles are harder to come by, for one, but they also tend not to pay terribly well; especially as they're competing against Finance in London, which does. Here's my top tip for attracting amazing candidates: pay them a lot of money. Simple as that.

Speaking as someone who used to hire low-level developers in the financial sector (i.e we could pay them an above average salary) I'd disagree. There's only a handful of universities now which teach C to a decent level, and if a candidate doesn't know C already it's very hard to tell if they'll be able to conceptually handle pointers and indirect referencing. So there's actually a very small pool to recruit from comp…

Well if we're talking about grads then yeah you're going to end up with programming newbies -- whether it's the right thing for CS programmes to churn out academics and not developers is a different discussion altogether -- but there's plenty of greybeards out there with C skills and what have you; and if they're smart, picking up C shouldn't be a huge challenge, nor should the other issues you mentioned. Again, with grads, it's hit and miss (is it ever not?) -- but senior developers who gun for low-level roles? Pay them enough and they will come.
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