Computer Science Graduates are the Least Employable in the UK • Hacker News Board

Re: Computer Science Graduates are the Least Employable in the UK

#11

Post by matheusalmeida » Fri, Nov 02, 2012, 9:31 PM UTC

Living and working in the UK for over a year now as a Software Engineer in a medium-sized company I see this article as a bit of a shock because every month I'm aware of available positions (including graduates) for developers that "want to get their hands dirty", i.e., working on core software tools like compilers and linkers and despite working closely with universities it's not easy to find new recruits willing to work on low-level development.

I guess the reality can be different if we take into account the percentage of programmers that want to work on "web technologies" and that's a completely different market.

All in all I think if one is a good developer, he/she will not have any problems finding a suitable position working on very interesting problems.

Re: Computer Science Graduates are the Least Employable in the UK

#12

Post by tsotha » Fri, Nov 02, 2012, 9:32 PM UTC

sean-duffy wrote: post #2

After just the other week observing a few articles on HN regarding the situation with jobs for CS graduates in the US, one article stating a 2:1 ratio between the number of available jobs for developers and the number of developers, this came as much of a surprise to me, as well as being pretty disconcerting since I'm in the UK and planning to study CS next year. I'm very interested to hear the opinions on this from…

The job market for developers is pretty good in the US, but graduates will have a tough time landing that first job. That's the way it's always been, though.

Re: Computer Science Graduates are the Least Employable in the UK

#13

Post by Eliezer » Fri, Nov 02, 2012, 9:33 PM UTC

I wonder if this is due to graduating people who can't code Fizzbuzz.

Re: Computer Science Graduates are the Least Employable in the UK

#14

Post by sgk284 » Fri, Nov 02, 2012, 9:35 PM UTC

sean-duffy wrote: post #2

After just the other week observing a few articles on HN regarding the situation with jobs for CS graduates in the US, one article stating a 2:1 ratio between the number of available jobs for developers and the number of developers, this came as much of a surprise to me, as well as being pretty disconcerting since I'm in the UK and planning to study CS next year. I'm very interested to hear the opinions on this from…

The article is two years old. I wouldn't read too much into it.

Re: Computer Science Graduates are the Least Employable in the UK

#15

Post by mickeyp » Fri, Nov 02, 2012, 9:36 PM UTC

matheusalmeida wrote: post #11

Living and working in the UK for over a year now as a Software Engineer in a medium-sized company I see this article as a bit of a shock because every month I'm aware of available positions (including graduates) for developers that "want to get their hands dirty", i.e., working on core software tools like compilers and linkers and despite working closely with universities it's not easy to find new recruits willing to…

Well, low-level roles are harder to come by, for one, but they also tend not to pay terribly well; especially as they're competing against Finance in London, which does.

Here's my top tip for attracting amazing candidates: pay them a lot of money. Simple as that.

Re: Computer Science Graduates are the Least Employable in the UK

#16

Post by mickeyp » Fri, Nov 02, 2012, 9:39 PM UTC

wheaties wrote: post #6

cbgrey wrote: post #4

And yet as an employer (not in the UK though) I have a hard time finding talented developers.

Here's the three step trick that works across the board: 1. Pay more 2. Offer amazing benefits. 3. Sponsor tech events and become active in a tech community. That's what I say to everyone who "can't find anyone decent." Decent people can pick and choose at the moment. If they aren't choosing you, you're not giving them enough reasons.

Actually, you know, you just need #1 if you're hiring people who aren't in their early 20s, or something. Most "help us solve hard problems!" technology firms/startups in London simply don't pay that well, and that makes it hard to attract the older, experienced developers with families.

Hiring contractors is another way of quickly getting access to a very large pool of skilled workers, but I find that most smaller companies never bother, even though the TOC of having a contractor on board may not be all that much more than a permanent employee.

Re: Computer Science Graduates are the Least Employable in the UK

#17

Post by ryanhuff » Fri, Nov 02, 2012, 9:40 PM UTC

wheaties wrote: post #6

cbgrey wrote: post #4

And yet as an employer (not in the UK though) I have a hard time finding talented developers.

Here's the three step trick that works across the board: 1. Pay more 2. Offer amazing benefits. 3. Sponsor tech events and become active in a tech community. That's what I say to everyone who "can't find anyone decent." Decent people can pick and choose at the moment. If they aren't choosing you, you're not giving them enough reasons.

Just to add to your post, an (unfortunate) reality for many companies looking for good back-office (IT) developers is that many of the most qualified just aren't interested in the company's work or industry, which requires even more focus on #1 and #2. In my experience, many of these same companies don't understand why they can't find people, but can't fathom addressing #1 and #2.

Re: Computer Science Graduates are the Least Employable in the UK

#18

Post by crntaylor » Fri, Nov 02, 2012, 9:41 PM UTC

sean-duffy wrote: post #2

After just the other week observing a few articles on HN regarding the situation with jobs for CS graduates in the US, one article stating a 2:1 ratio between the number of available jobs for developers and the number of developers, this came as much of a surprise to me, as well as being pretty disconcerting since I'm in the UK and planning to study CS next year. I'm very interested to hear the opinions on this from…

If you study at a good university, and learn useful things while you study, and build cool things in your spare time, then you will have no problem finding a job. The company I work for routinely pays £100k+ ($160k+) per year to fresh computer science grads if they're really good.

Re: Computer Science Graduates are the Least Employable in the UK

#19

Post by vmind » Fri, Nov 02, 2012, 9:43 PM UTC

sean-duffy wrote: post #2

After just the other week observing a few articles on HN regarding the situation with jobs for CS graduates in the US, one article stating a 2:1 ratio between the number of available jobs for developers and the number of developers, this came as much of a surprise to me, as well as being pretty disconcerting since I'm in the UK and planning to study CS next year. I'm very interested to hear the opinions on this from…

As long as you gain some experience in addition to your CS degree there are plenty of programming jobs around, though they are largely concentrated in London and Cambridge (Quant jobs in London, other more general programming in both locations, quite a bit of hardware around Cambridge too). The larger employers often recruit directly through University career fairs.

There's still a high demand for good developers in the UK, main issue in recruitment is sifting through the many applicants for positions who, even with experience, show no aptitude for the job.

Re: Computer Science Graduates are the Least Employable in the UK

#20

Post by mvc » Fri, Nov 02, 2012, 9:43 PM UTC

The problem for UK devs is that everything is so London centric. I bet there's lots of open positions there and lots of talented but unemployed (or underpaid) developers in Liverpool, Newcastle and Glasgow. I used to be one of them until I moved.

I've seen attempts to try and create a UK equivalent of "Silicon Valley". Where do they put it? London!!