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Urea prices

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Re: Urea prices

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are three main emissions control systems in diesels, the Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR), Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) and Selective Catalytic Reduction (SCR) which uses Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF). Any or all can be "deleted" and is a crime to do so. All 3 systems add complexity and potentially reduce performance which is why those who don't care about emissions like to get rid of them. Before DEF NOx regula…

Of course, but mostly it's just recirculation that causes costly engine rebuilds. If it wasn't so expensive no one would delete. Most regulations target emissions at point of sale but don't give a toss if such systems are practical or maintainable. It's sometimes better for the environment to have more emissions but not so much waste from having to buy a new thing more frequently.

I've got a 2011 BMW X5 diesel with 189k miles on it. The DPF went out at around 150k, which is roughly the expected lifetime from my understanding. The part alone is ~$4000. Regardless of living in CA, I'd have replaced it anyway because I think it's the right thing to do. (I didn't want a non-DPF diesel that was emitting lots of PM2.5s when I made my purchase).

That said, many people would prefer the money in their bank account. And if I had decided to sell it rather than fix, no doubt it would have gone to someone looking to delete the DPF.

Re: Urea prices

#52
post #25

Sooner rather than later we need to decarbonize fertilizer production. Maybe this will speed the process up a bit.

I am rather pessimistic. Unless petroleum prices go really bonkers, efuels are in for a rough few years. The synthesized fuels required cheap energy and benefited from subsidies while they are still optimizing the technology.

Energy use in the country has been basically flat for decades, so the increasing glut of renewables seemed well timed to allow for siphoning off that free mid-day power. Cue massive data center build out, and prices have massively shot up and blown the economics of efuels apart.

You additionally have an administration which hates anything done by Biden and/or alternative energies, so the bountiful incentives for such programs are/will be neutered.

There is no stopping the ultimate carbon free transition, but the stars really need to align to see any meaningful amount of synthetic generation to happen soon.

Re: Urea prices

#53

Yes urea is used in fertilizer. Yes, the price is going up relative to May 13, 2024 (lowest in 5 years). look at the chart in the article, then click 5Y on the bottom of the chart. Click the + sign between the calendar and wrench icon Type in "US Food inflation". It will overlay the "urea" price with the "US food inflation". Yes, urea seems to be a leading indicator. It is nothing like in 2022, yet .

:( Food is already so expensive in Canada. It doesn’t seem like it ever recovered after 2022.

Re: Urea prices

#56

What if we collectively pee in buckets (to not dilute it with water and other human by-products) and give them to refineries for purification? /s

There is historic precedent: https://docsouth.unc.edu/imls/lecontesalt/leconte.html, but we probably want to collect cattle pee, since that is available in greater quantities.

Re: Urea prices

#58

Saw posters on /r/Truckers complaining that truck stops were taking advantage of situation to gouge for DEF too on top of diesel before someone pointed out that Iran is the second largest producer of urea, the primary component of DEF. They are not happy right now with $5.00 / gal fuel and higher DEF as well. Worried the administration will use it as an excuse to rollback NOx emissions regulations that mandated DEF u…

Here's a trucker explaining other costs of the unnecessary Iran war.

https://youtu.be/BtAZ1jAV57s

Re: Urea prices

#59
> For use in industry, urea is produced from synthetic ammonia and carbon dioxide. As large quantities of carbon dioxide are produced during the ammonia manufacturing process as a byproduct of burning hydrocarbons to generate heat (predominantly natural gas, and less often petroleum derivatives or coal), urea production plants are almost always located adjacent to the site where the ammonia is manufactured.

To be clear, the CO2 is captured from the fuel burned in producing the ammonia?

... how much of it?

Re: Urea prices

#60
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really interesting. It made me curious to dig in and learn that urea production starts with natural gas. And if you add natural gas to the chart as well urea and natural gas prices generally track together without a lag either way, except natural gas doesn't have the recent uptick seen in urea. I guess the recent move in urea likely isn’t coming from energy costs, something fertilizer-specific, exports, shipping, or…

> I guess the recent move in urea likely isn’t coming from energy costs, something fertilizer-specific, exports, shipping, or supply One of India's SOEs recently paused Urea production at some plants due to NatGas issues from the ongoing conflict [0]. Additonally, India began reducing purchasing of Russian LNG in late 2025. India also launched a tender to purchase urea on the global market in February [1]. This led t…

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