Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Urea prices

tradingeconomics.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 100 posts

Re: Urea prices

#31

Post by alephnerd »

WaitWaitWha wrote: post #26

Yes urea is used in fertilizer. Yes, the price is going up relative to May 13, 2024 (lowest in 5 years). look at the chart in the article, then click 5Y on the bottom of the chart. Click the + sign between the calendar and wrench icon Type in "US Food inflation". It will overlay the "urea" price with the "US food inflation". Yes, urea seems to be a leading indicator. It is nothing like in 2022, yet .

> 2022

And that was specifically due to the (ongoing) Russian Invasion of Ukraine. After the 2022 spike, most large countries began building alternative supply chains to reduce impacts from these kinds of hits.

For example, the US and Europe largely doesn't use urea unlike Brazil, India, and China.

This is also why Asian countries have been investing heavily in Hydrogen energy despite HN's hate boner to the technology.

Edit: can't reply

> Is it really hydrogen energy if your plan for the hydrogen gas is turning it into ammonia? Would give you another use for it, I suppose

The whole point of building a hydrogen energy market is becuase hydrogen electrolyzers are dual use, and the methodology to leverage and produce "green" ammonia is similar to "green" hydrogen.

A non-LNG method to mass produce ammonia has always been called out in most countries Hydrogen energy roadmaps such as Japan [0], China [1], and India [2].

[0] - https://grjapan.com/sites/default/files/content/articles/fil...

[1] - https://rmi.org/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2022/09/china...

[2] - https://www.adb.org/sites/default/files/publication/1033081/...

Re: Urea prices

#32

Post by pavel_lishin »

WaitWaitWha wrote: post #26

Yes urea is used in fertilizer. Yes, the price is going up relative to May 13, 2024 (lowest in 5 years). look at the chart in the article, then click 5Y on the bottom of the chart. Click the + sign between the calendar and wrench icon Type in "US Food inflation". It will overlay the "urea" price with the "US food inflation". Yes, urea seems to be a leading indicator. It is nothing like in 2022, yet .

It looks like it's been pretty stable for three years, after what looks like a spike in the end of 2021.

I can't see past 5Y without paying, so I don't know if the past three years was an abnormal low, or if that's the regular cost.

Re: Urea prices

#34

Post by throwaway85825 »

SigmundA wrote: post #28

Saw posters on /r/Truckers complaining that truck stops were taking advantage of situation to gouge for DEF too on top of diesel before someone pointed out that Iran is the second largest producer of urea, the primary component of DEF. They are not happy right now with $5.00 / gal fuel and higher DEF as well. Worried the administration will use it as an excuse to rollback NOx emissions regulations that mandated DEF u…

The deletes are for recirculation systems not DEF. Recirculation was always a bad idea and anyone who wants diesel for some reason should use DEF.

Re: Urea prices

#35

Post by tdeck »

SigmundA wrote: post #28

Saw posters on /r/Truckers complaining that truck stops were taking advantage of situation to gouge for DEF too on top of diesel before someone pointed out that Iran is the second largest producer of urea, the primary component of DEF. They are not happy right now with $5.00 / gal fuel and higher DEF as well. Worried the administration will use it as an excuse to rollback NOx emissions regulations that mandated DEF u…

Wars open a lot of opportunities, especially for the worst people.

Re: Urea prices

#37

Post by mkw5053 »

WaitWaitWha wrote: post #26

Yes urea is used in fertilizer. Yes, the price is going up relative to May 13, 2024 (lowest in 5 years). look at the chart in the article, then click 5Y on the bottom of the chart. Click the + sign between the calendar and wrench icon Type in "US Food inflation". It will overlay the "urea" price with the "US food inflation". Yes, urea seems to be a leading indicator. It is nothing like in 2022, yet .

Really interesting. It made me curious to dig in and learn that urea production starts with natural gas. And if you add natural gas to the chart as well urea and natural gas prices generally track together without a lag either way, except natural gas doesn't have the recent uptick seen in urea.

I guess the recent move in urea likely isn’t coming from energy costs, something fertilizer-specific, exports, shipping, or supply?

Or it's just noise \_(ツ)_/

Re: Urea prices

#38

Post by SigmundA »

throwaway85825 wrote: post #34
SigmundA wrote: post #28

Saw posters on /r/Truckers complaining that truck stops were taking advantage of situation to gouge for DEF too on top of diesel before someone pointed out that Iran is the second largest producer of urea, the primary component of DEF. They are not happy right now with $5.00 / gal fuel and higher DEF as well. Worried the administration will use it as an excuse to rollback NOx emissions regulations that mandated DEF u…

The deletes are for recirculation systems not DEF. Recirculation was always a bad idea and anyone who wants diesel for some reason should use DEF.

There are three main emissions control systems in diesels, the Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR), Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) and Selective Catalytic Reduction (SCR) which uses Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF).

Any or all can be "deleted" and is a crime to do so. All 3 systems add complexity and potentially reduce performance which is why those who don't care about emissions like to get rid of them.

Before DEF NOx regulations steadily went up engine manufacturers relied on increasing amounts of EGR to control NOx until it was not tenable, once DEF systems where implemented they could back off EGR increasing performance but not as much as ripping it all out and tuning for no care of emissions.

There are EGR free engines that rely entirely on DEF to control NOx but they are not for on-road use in the US thus far.

Re: Urea prices

#39

Post by [deleted] »

mkw5053 wrote: post #37
WaitWaitWha wrote: post #26

Yes urea is used in fertilizer. Yes, the price is going up relative to May 13, 2024 (lowest in 5 years). look at the chart in the article, then click 5Y on the bottom of the chart. Click the + sign between the calendar and wrench icon Type in "US Food inflation". It will overlay the "urea" price with the "US food inflation". Yes, urea seems to be a leading indicator. It is nothing like in 2022, yet .

Really interesting. It made me curious to dig in and learn that urea production starts with natural gas. And if you add natural gas to the chart as well urea and natural gas prices generally track together without a lag either way, except natural gas doesn't have the recent uptick seen in urea. I guess the recent move in urea likely isn’t coming from energy costs, something fertilizer-specific, exports, shipping, or…

[deleted]

Re: Urea prices

#40

Post by throwaway85825 »

SigmundA wrote: post #38
throwaway85825 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The deletes are for recirculation systems not DEF. Recirculation was always a bad idea and anyone who wants diesel for some reason should use DEF.

There are three main emissions control systems in diesels, the Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR), Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) and Selective Catalytic Reduction (SCR) which uses Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF). Any or all can be "deleted" and is a crime to do so. All 3 systems add complexity and potentially reduce performance which is why those who don't care about emissions like to get rid of them. Before DEF NOx regula…

Of course, but mostly it's just recirculation that causes costly engine rebuilds. If it wasn't so expensive no one would delete.

Most regulations target emissions at point of sale but don't give a toss if such systems are practical or maintainable. It's sometimes better for the environment to have more emissions but not so much waste from having to buy a new thing more frequently.

Post reply on HN