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Elon Musk’s Mission to Mars

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Re: Elon Musk’s Mission to Mars

#111
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I am delighted You certainly don't sound like it.

I would sprint through a minefield to be on that first boat out. My wallpaper at one point in life was panoramic prints from the Opportunity rover. I wrote Kim Stanley Robinson a fan letter, signed with a chewed up gelly pen. I am utterly delighted. But the hard part is extremely, extremely, extremely hard. It's not getting there, it's staying there. And scant few people are focusing on what it would actually look li…

I can answer all your questions:

Some people will be happy with the life.

Some people will be unhappy with the life.

Same as it is in every single other living situation.

Re: Elon Musk’s Mission to Mars

#112

> The problem is that at a lot of big companies, process becomes a substitute for thinking. You’re encouraged to behave like a little gear in a complex machine. Frankly, it allows you to keep people who aren’t that smart, who aren’t that creative. Sounds like so many complaints about the enterprise software landscape, and has certainly proved to be true in my own experience. Codified processes usually start with the…

This is something I've been struggling with. I see the two paths to success being mutually exclusive; throw out process and go big or channel process into success. See this link and the ensuing discussion: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4727045 This view is to cultivate habits and work consistently and methodically every day. Elon's view is to toss out process and dream big. What is the best way to reconcile the…

> What is the best way to reconcile these two opinions? Is it a matter of scale (i.e. personal process but enterprise chutzpah?)

It's a matter of experience. Process is defined by the boundary at which things start to fray. You can only find that boundary by running into it a few times and recognizing where it is. It gets much, much more complex as you grow in size because the fraying can happen as part of how two individuals interact. The more individuals you have, the riskier it is to assume the boundary is farther out, and thus the safer it is to constrict using process; there are interpersonal boundaries on top of your personal comfort zones.

If you don't need the habits and consistency, then you don't need them. Don't do that. Go big until you fail. Figure out why you failed. Account for it next time. That accounting is process. And probe your process occasionally to make sure it's still valid, too.

Re: Elon Musk’s Mission to Mars

#113
post #5

If you have't already seen it, Kevin Rose interviews Elon Musk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-s_3b5fRd8 Also, Neil deGrasse Tyson talks about if there was a space race with China the US would be on Mars in 18 months: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=c... It would be truly amazing if a private company was the first to set foot on another planet.

When (not if) we set foot on Mars, the achievement will be one of humanity. Private company, government, US, China, it doesn't matter. We'll be on Mars, a multi-planetary race. How the accomplishment was funded and by who will not matter (to me, anyway).

I totally agree, but what flag will be planted? Humans love to raise a flag from the geographic location known as a country they are a resident of. It would be amazing if we didn't need a flag this time around, just human accomplishment. But competition drives humans to do great things, look at the olympic records over time. If SpaceX received funding fromt he US government would there be a clause in the contract stating they have to raise an American Flag?

Re: Elon Musk’s Mission to Mars

#114
post #92
post #14

Apologies for being somewhat off-topic, but does anybody know if there are citizenship requirements for working at a place like SpaceX? I have a solid background in materials science and metallurgy from a world-class university, and find what Musk is doing very inspirational. After I finish my PhD, I'd love to be a part of it, but I'm British and I know with some companies in the industry there're citizenship require…

Yes, you must be a U.S. citizen. It's an ITAR restriction (google it) because essentially you'd be working on an intercontinental ballistic missile.

OR permanent resident.

Re: Elon Musk’s Mission to Mars

#115
post #68
post #52

The complexity of getting to Mars is nothing compared to the complexity of creating a social unit that can survive and thrive on another planet. Specifically, an Antarctic planet covered in chlorinated brominated rusty dust with essentially no air pressure or atmospheric water, a dim sun, rotten weather, two ugly little moons, and 57,600,000 millisecond ping times. No chance to ever feel fresh air on your face, no ch…

Seriously, are dismissive and pessimistic remarks like this the top-voted comment on _every single_ Hacker News post these days? Elon Musk has built a fucking space rocket company and is defeating Boeing, Lockheed Martin and MDD in a business they've dominated for the last 40 years. I think this is an incredibly impressive accomplishment, and SpaceX's ambitions to make it possible to do manned missions to Mars is exa…

I really liked his comment, and didn't consider it dismissive. Reminded me of Ray Bradbury in fact.

Re: Elon Musk’s Mission to Mars

#116
post #52

The complexity of getting to Mars is nothing compared to the complexity of creating a social unit that can survive and thrive on another planet. Specifically, an Antarctic planet covered in chlorinated brominated rusty dust with essentially no air pressure or atmospheric water, a dim sun, rotten weather, two ugly little moons, and 57,600,000 millisecond ping times. No chance to ever feel fresh air on your face, no ch…

> The complexity of getting to Mars is nothing compared to the complexity of creating a social unit that can survive and thrive on another planet.

What's so complicated about "a family" ?

Re: Elon Musk’s Mission to Mars

#117
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was the ad that Shackleton placed in the paper to find a crew for his most famous expedition: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Trans-Antarctic_Expedi...

If anyone here hasn't, Ernest Shackleton's 'South' is basically mandatory reading. It's his own book about his own experiences, it's dispassionate and yet wildly exciting, and even though you know how it ends, you're on the edge of your seat. Superb adventure. http://www.amazon.com/South-Endurance-Expedition-Ernest-Shac...

I thought it was fantastic. Project Gutenburg has also made it available.

Re: Elon Musk’s Mission to Mars

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am all for people being motivated by a higher calling and trying to be explorers, but you'd better forget about the "signing your name into history" bit. Unless you're one of the very first or do something very special, very few people will remember you. Could you, off the top of your head, recount the names of all the Apollo astronauts? Could you list, even with some research, say, the first 100 people from Europe…

I don't remember apollo astronauts, but Wikipedia does. Hopefully our records will be better preserved than those from the Mayflower.

> Hopefully our records will be better preserved than those from the Mayflower.

I dunno. They Mayflower records are pretty decent. And online.

http://www.mayflowerhistory.com/images/MayflowerCompact.gif

Re: Elon Musk’s Mission to Mars

#119
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

very cool; thanks for the links. and that would be absolutely amazing; though in some ways (and not to discount musk’s undertaking at all) i feel it speaks more so to a failure of governments (generally speaking) in investing to drive technological advance. it should be the public sector that leads in these types of endeavors. one of the most important functions of a state is its ability and willingness to invest in…

Can't say I agree that funding this type of endeavor is "one of the most important functions of a state is its ability and willingness to invest in projects that would be otherwise unprofitable or far too long-term for any rational player in the private sector to take-on." Government does many things marginally better than the private sector, and many things poorly. For example, the Pyramids are a stunning achievemen…

not wanting to get into a philosophical debate here, but even as someone who generally argues for smaller government, i disagree..

people generally discount the significant economic advantages (to all in an economy) that government investments provide; in most cases, investments in transformative projects which otherwise would not have occurred were it up to the private-sector alone.

take development of the us interstate system as an example.. the costs involved in building-out the network are estimated to have been in excess of $425 billion [1] and the original phase took over 35 years to complete as planned; no rational, profit-seeking, company would ever undertake such a project. the economics just don’t make much sense. and even if the private sector was able to come-up with a similarly adequate solution (potentially networks of small/regional players monetizing usage through tolls), the cost to society both in actual usage charges (sufficient to generate profits for the firms) and in lack of a consistent, expandable, and reliable network that so many people and businesses depend on would likely be far in excess of the $425 billion cost.

the fact that the us built-up solid infrastructure (both physical and in terms of networks and connectivity systems) early on (relative to many other nations) provided domestic companies a major competitive advantage over less/later-developed countries; its freed-up physical ($) and intellectual capital towards other endeavors and was a key part of why, collectively, more significant commercialized innovations over the past few decades (by private companies) have come from the us.

and beyond the economic savings from the outcome of the investment itself (i.e. a system facilitating a reliable, consistent, and relatively inexpensive means of transportation), the actual exercise in carrying it through also yields a lot of ancillary economic benefits. new construction methods may be developed, equipment manufacturers may grow in scale or scope, and a lot of people (and companies) are employed (and contracted) in carrying-it through (gaining new skills/experience).

beyond that, there is all the subsequent innovation and opportunity to develop profitable businesses that are created once a major transformational technology is introduced. think of the advantages ups (and later fedex) would have in utilizing the interstate system to grow in scale relative to competitors in countries that lacked similar systems (now lookup who are the leaders in that industry). the benefits are even clearer when you look at all the technology and defense companies that have benefited from foundations laid-out by, or innovations developed during, large government-funded projects such as the internet or during the space race..

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_Highway_System

Re: Elon Musk’s Mission to Mars

#120
post #83
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously, are dismissive and pessimistic remarks like this the top-voted comment on _every single_ Hacker News post these days? Elon Musk has built a fucking space rocket company and is defeating Boeing, Lockheed Martin and MDD in a business they've dominated for the last 40 years. I think this is an incredibly impressive accomplishment, and SpaceX's ambitions to make it possible to do manned missions to Mars is exa…

Sure. Elon Musk is a heroic man. His car company is a marvel, and his space program is spectacular. His unfettered ability to speak without a mouth full of funder's cock or a PR minder sitting in the room is refreshing. His visions are grounded in technical and physical reality, his powers of observation are keen, and he has the personality and resources it takes to organize people in service of great accomplishments…

First, a reply to your original post :

> In a box, on a dead planet, for life.

Sign me up, right now!!!

> Can we provide a reasonable quality of life for colonists?

I don't care. I would need a) air+water b) food c) a place to sleep d) tools to colonize the planet - like create more living space. For quality of life, if I can get e) book or movies or even f) internet access, great! If I can't that's not a dealbreaker.

So, sign me up!!

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