Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why the global elite gave up on spelling and grammar

wsj.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 316 posts

Re: Why the global elite gave up on spelling and grammar

#91

Post by rkomorn »

jpfromlondon wrote: post #35
teachrdan wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also the British penchant for deliberately mispronouncing French words. I have heard "renaissance" pronounced "reh-NAY-sance", "fillet" pronounced "fill-it", "valet" as "val-it" and so on. I think it's a national point of pride to pronounce the words of their neighbor incorrectly.

America is at least as guilty of mispronouncing non-english words it's just natural drift. As to fillet and valet, they joined english before the contemporary french pronunciation, and are much closer to the middle-french.

I'm always amused by some mispronunciations that stray farther away from the original than necessary.

My favorite is probably crepe, which Americans pronounce like an almost diphthong-y craype (or crape like grape I guess) when crep (like step) would do just fine and be closer to the original.

But as a native French and basically-native American speaker, I also couldn't really care less about it, or about things like Americans pronouncing the t in croissant, or French people being unable to say the.

Re: Why the global elite gave up on spelling and grammar

#92

Post by lab14 »

RiverCrochet wrote: post #72
lab14 wrote: post #20

to me, the goal of written text is to put an idea or a concept in the mind of another person. _capitalization_ is one of those "arbitrary rules" that add absolutely nothing to this process unless you're using an obscure acronym. in my mind, it's one of those ancient rules that are completely obsolete in the modern world. its only purpose is to allow others to say "i am better than you because i use this ancient rule…

WELL, THE CAPITAL LETTER FORMS WERE THE ORIGINAL ONES, THEN LOWERCASE ONES WERE CREATED BECAUSE THEY WERE FASTER FOR THE MONKS TO WRITE WHO WERE COPYING BOOKS. SOURCE: ROMAN RUINS. WE'RE NOT MONKS SO DEF COMPLETELY OBSOLETE. SO IF YOU WANT TO THROW OUT THE CAPITALIZATION RULES ENTIRELY, DO IT RIGHT AND USE ALL CAPS. THIS WOULD DEFINITELY MAKE IDEAS EASIER TO TRANSMIT AND RECEIVE.

my point wasn't about using the "original rules", on the contrary it was about discarding uneeded ones. totally missed the point, but hey thanks for your contribution.

Re: Why the global elite gave up on spelling and grammar

#93

Post by FpUser »

bluepeter wrote: post #22

British aristocracy has been pronouncing their own surnames wrong for centuries on purpose. Cholmondeley is "Chumley" Featherstonehaugh is "Fanshaw." If you read it phonetically you mark yourself as an outsider. The misstake is the membership card. (Heck, even in Portland we locals hear about misprouncing Couch St probably every year in local press as some bar for membership to our own locals only vibe.)

Here in Toronto area city of Vaughan pronounced as (/vɔːn/ or /vɑːn/) like in "dawn" or "gone"

Imaging me fresh from USSR asking someone how do I get to ... and getting blank stare

Re: Why the global elite gave up on spelling and grammar

#94

Post by djeastm »

jpfromlondon wrote: post #35
teachrdan wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also the British penchant for deliberately mispronouncing French words. I have heard "renaissance" pronounced "reh-NAY-sance", "fillet" pronounced "fill-it", "valet" as "val-it" and so on. I think it's a national point of pride to pronounce the words of their neighbor incorrectly.

America is at least as guilty of mispronouncing non-english words it's just natural drift. As to fillet and valet, they joined english before the contemporary french pronunciation, and are much closer to the middle-french.

>America is at least as guilty of mispronouncing non-english words it's just natural drift.

See also: Cairo, IL or Versailles, KY...

Re: Why the global elite gave up on spelling and grammar

#95

Post by [deleted] »

stackghost wrote: post #46
jordanb wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah and it's really interesting watching people try to come up with alternate explanations. The people who rule us can't be this mid, otherwise the very concept of meritocracy is bunk. Or at the very least, the things we tell ourselves are meritorious are not what actually what causes people to rise to the top of our society. By the way I'm also astonished by their lack of taste. The Epstein properties give off a si…

>The people who rule us can't be this mid, otherwise the very concept of meritocracy is bunk. It is bunk. Nobody who has even a modicum of critical thinking ability thinks that Donald Trump or Elon Musk are geniuses. Luck and circumstance are an immense part of success.

[deleted]

Re: Why the global elite gave up on spelling and grammar

#96

Post by joe_mamba »

hax0ron3 wrote: post #81
joe_mamba wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>how are they maintaining their spots against smarter competitors? Blackmail, lying, cunning, manipulation, backstabbing, machiavellianism, etc, You need to be intelligent at these, above all else.

Well, then the theory that they are stupid is false, since at the least they are very smart at blackmail, lying, cunning, manipulation, backstabbing, machiavellianism, etc.

Yep. They're stupid at what the general public considers intelligence, generally academic excellence. But they're smart at doing whatever it takes to get to the top.

Re: Why the global elite gave up on spelling and grammar

#97

Post by k33n »

moralestapia wrote: post #19
tencentshill wrote: post #2

That's just how busy people type. You see it a lot if you communicate with upper managers/Csuite regularly. They don't have anyone to impress in private emails, as long as the message is communicated well enough. Before smartphones/autocorrect/dictation it was worse.

>That's just how busy people type. Lmao. If you think these people are busy, I have news for you.

Their schedules are usually quite full, but their work doesn't really resemble an average person's.

Re: Why the global elite gave up on spelling and grammar

#99

Post by officeplant »

bluGill wrote: post #73
netsharc wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That reminds me of an interaction I had with a foreign exchange intern at my uni. I was working in an organization that organized these exchanges and I was giving him the orientation on his first day, including introducing him to his employer. The employer wanted him to write an email to some other person in the company, and he 1st wrote it with no caps n txtspeak, and when he was done he went back through it so it w…

If you want something to be clear you need to take time to re-read and revise it. If you really want to be sure there needs to be a full day between writing and revision (otherwise you will read what you meant to write, not what you actually wrote). For a presumably non-native speaker I expect he needed that extra effort. Technically I should wait a day to hey the reply button here. I don't see anything wrong with th…

>wait a day to hey the reply button here.

Haha, yeah. I was face palming some obvious typos in an important email earlier. Even after reading it four times. I find this helps in writing music as well. I come back a day later and so many things stick out that my brain would just gloss over.

Re: Why the global elite gave up on spelling and grammar

#100

Post by mmooss »

bluGill wrote: post #64
mmooss wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's just how busy people type. You see it a lot if you communicate with upper managers/Csuite regularly. They don't have anyone to impress in private emails, as long as the message is communicated well enough. There is a time pressure to communicate this way, but I think it's generally a management mistake: Managment includes leadership (usually). Your messages are most of what most people in the organization se…

Messages from the CEO to the whole company should be carefully checked, and in my experience they seem to be. Spelling/grammar is just a tiny part of check, there is also the whole inclusive language/not offensive to anyone set of checks, and the is this even legal check (perhaps more, that is what I can think of offhand). Messages to a single vice president get much less care.

I agree that's the reality, but that VP will follow your example - as a leader, excellence is a performance, a superficial presentation for others, not something to do in private. Also, it's normal to not take your reportees seriously (to some degree).
Post reply on HN