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Levels of Agentic Engineering

bassimeledath.com

21–30 of 152 posts

Re: Levels of Agentic Engineering

#21
post #7

As a lowly level 2 who remains skeptical of these software “dark factories” described at the top of this ladder, what I don’t understand is this: If software engineering is enough of a solved problem that you can delegate it entirely to LLM agents, what part of it remains context-specific enough that it can’t be better solved by a general-purpose software factory product? In other words, if you’re a company that is u…

Also a measly level 2er. I'm curious what kind of project truly needs an autonomous agent team Ralph looping out 10,000 LOCs per hour? Seems like harness-maxxing is a competitive pursuit in its own right existing outside the task of delivering software to customers.

Feels like K8s cult, overly focused on the cleverness of _how_ something is built versus _what_ is being built.

Re: Levels of Agentic Engineering

#23

In my opinion there are 2 levels, human writes the code with AI assist or AI writes the code with human assist; centuar or reverse-centuar. But this article tries to focus on the evolution of the ideas and mistakenly terms them as levels (indicating a skill ladder as other commenters have noted) when they are more like stages that the AI ecosystem has evolved through. The article reads better if you think of it that…

There is another level - AI writes the code with AI assist.

That is just another level of reverse centaur and will eventually have a human ass attached to it.

Re: Levels of Agentic Engineering

#24
post #10

I coded a level 8 orchestration layer in CI for code review, two months before Claude launched theirs. It's very powerful and agents can create dynamic microbenchmarks and evaluate what data structure to use for optimal performance, among other things. I also have validation layers that trim hallucinations with handwritten linters. I'd love to find people to network with. Right now this is a side project at work on t…

I got my own level 8 factory working in the last few days and it’s been exhilarating. Mine is based on OpenAI’s Symphony[1], ported to TypeScript.

Would be happy to swap war stories.

@gmail.com

Re: Levels of Agentic Engineering

#25
> Voice-to-voice (thought-to-thought, maybe?) interaction with your coding agent — conversational Claude Code, not just voice-to-text input — is a natural next step.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see the appeal in verbal dictation, especially where complexity is involved. I want to think through issues deliberately, carefully, and slowly to ensure I'm not glossing over subtle nuances. I don't find speaking to be conducive to that.

For me, the process of writing (and rewriting) gives me the time, space, and structure to more precisely articulate what I want with a more heightened degree of specificity. Being able to type at 80+ wpm probably helps as well.

Re: Levels of Agentic Engineering

#26
Level 4 is where I see the most interesting design decisions get made, and also where most practitioners take a shortcut that compounds badly later.

When the author talks about "codifying" lessons, the instinct for most people is to update the rules file. That works fine for conventions - naming patterns, library preferences, relatively stable stuff. But there's a different category of knowledge that rules files handle poorly: the why behind decisions. Not what approach was chosen, but what was rejected and why the tradeoff landed where it did.

"Never use GraphQL for this service" is a useful rule to have in CLAUDE.md. What's not there: that GraphQL was actually evaluated, got pretty far into prototyping, and was abandoned because the caching layer had been specifically tuned for REST response shapes, and the cost of changing that was higher than the benefit for the team's current scale. The agent follows the rule. It can't tell when the rule is no longer load-bearing.

The place where this reasoning fits most naturally is git history - decisions and rejections captured in commit messages, versioned alongside the code they apply to. Good engineers have always done this informally. The discipline to do it consistently enough that agents can actually retrieve and use it is what's missing, and structuring it for that purpose is genuinely underexplored territory.

At level 7, this matters more than people expect. Background agents running across sessions with no human-in-the-loop have nothing to draw on except whatever was written down. A stale rules file in that context doesn't just cause mistakes - it produces confident mistakes.

Re: Levels of Agentic Engineering

#27
Level 9: agent managers running agent teams Level 10: agent CEOs overseeing agent managers Level 11: agent board of directors overseeing the agent CEO

Level 12: agent superintelligence - single entity doing everything

Level 13: agent superagent, agenting agency agentically, in a loop, recursively, mega agent, agentic agent agent agency super AGI agent

Level 14: A G E N T

Re: Levels of Agentic Engineering

#28
post #7

As a lowly level 2 who remains skeptical of these software “dark factories” described at the top of this ladder, what I don’t understand is this: If software engineering is enough of a solved problem that you can delegate it entirely to LLM agents, what part of it remains context-specific enough that it can’t be better solved by a general-purpose software factory product? In other words, if you’re a company that is u…

Why sell the factory when you can create automated software cloner companies that make millions off of instantly copying promising startups as soon as they come out of stealth?

If you could get a dark factory working when others don't have one, you can make much more money using it than however much you can make selling it

Re: Levels of Agentic Engineering

#29

Level 9: agent managers running agent teams Level 10: agent CEOs overseeing agent managers Level 11: agent board of directors overseeing the agent CEO Level 12: agent superintelligence - single entity doing everything Level 13: agent superagent, agenting agency agentically, in a loop, recursively, mega agent, agentic agent agent agency super AGI agent Level 14: A G E N T

Level 15 (if not succumbed to fatal context poisoning from malicious agent crime syndicate): Agents creating corporations to code agentic marketplaces in which to gamble their own crypto currencies until they crash the real economy of humans.

Re: Levels of Agentic Engineering

#30

Level 9: agent managers running agent teams Level 10: agent CEOs overseeing agent managers Level 11: agent board of directors overseeing the agent CEO Level 12: agent superintelligence - single entity doing everything Level 13: agent superagent, agenting agency agentically, in a loop, recursively, mega agent, agentic agent agent agency super AGI agent Level 14: A G E N T

Level 15 (if not succumbed to fatal context poisoning from malicious agent crime syndicate): Agents creating corporations to code agentic marketplaces in which to gamble their own crypto currencies until they crash the real economy of humans.

Level 16: it’s not level 16, it’s level 17.
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