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Grammarly is offering ‘expert’ AI reviews from famous dead and living writers

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Re: Grammarly is offering ‘expert’ AI reviews from famous dead and living writers

#41

Post by simianwords »

plewd wrote: post #37
simianwords wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but llm can do both. so what's the point? can you give a specific example of what an llm can't do? be specific so we can test it.

like OP originally said, the LLM doesn't have access to the actual process of the author, only the completed/refined output. Not sure why you need a concrete example to "test", but just think about the fact that the LLM has no idea how a writer brainstorms, re-iterates on their work, or even comes up with the ideas in the first place.

i don't buy this logic. if i have studied an author greatly i will be able to recognise patterns and be able to write like them.

ex: i read a lot of shakespeare, understand patterns, understand where he came from, his biography and i will be able to write like him. why is it different for an LLM?

i again don't get what the point is?

Re: Grammarly is offering ‘expert’ AI reviews from famous dead and living writers

#42

Post by weird-eye-issue »

shafyy wrote: post #11
weird-eye-issue wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Replace "LLM" with "student" and read that again. You don't just blindly give students output, you teach them, like what you are supposed to do with an LLM.

Enough with this analgoy. It's flawed on so many levels. First and foremost, stop devaluing humanitiy and hyping up AI companies by parroting their party line. Second, LLMs don't learn. They can hold a very limited amount of context, as you know. And every time you need to start over. So fuck no, "teaching" and LLM is nothing like teaching an actual human.

> very limited amount of context

This isn't 2023 anymore

Re: Grammarly is offering ‘expert’ AI reviews from famous dead and living writers

#43

Post by TimorousBestie »

simianwords wrote: post #41
plewd wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

like OP originally said, the LLM doesn't have access to the actual process of the author, only the completed/refined output. Not sure why you need a concrete example to "test", but just think about the fact that the LLM has no idea how a writer brainstorms, re-iterates on their work, or even comes up with the ideas in the first place.

i don't buy this logic. if i have studied an author greatly i will be able to recognise patterns and be able to write like them. ex: i read a lot of shakespeare, understand patterns, understand where he came from, his biography and i will be able to write like him. why is it different for an LLM? i again don't get what the point is?

This is the plot of a short story of Borges’ called “Pierre Menard, the Author of Don Quixote.”

Re: Grammarly is offering ‘expert’ AI reviews from famous dead and living writers

#44

Post by tovej »

simianwords wrote: post #41
plewd wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

like OP originally said, the LLM doesn't have access to the actual process of the author, only the completed/refined output. Not sure why you need a concrete example to "test", but just think about the fact that the LLM has no idea how a writer brainstorms, re-iterates on their work, or even comes up with the ideas in the first place.

i don't buy this logic. if i have studied an author greatly i will be able to recognise patterns and be able to write like them. ex: i read a lot of shakespeare, understand patterns, understand where he came from, his biography and i will be able to write like him. why is it different for an LLM? i again don't get what the point is?

You can understand his biography and analyses about how shakespeare might have written. You can apply this knowledge to modify your writing process.

The LLM does not model text at this meta-level. It can only use those texts as examples, it cannot apply what is written there to it's generation process.

Re: Grammarly is offering ‘expert’ AI reviews from famous dead and living writers

#45

Post by [deleted] »

plewd wrote: post #37
simianwords wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but llm can do both. so what's the point? can you give a specific example of what an llm can't do? be specific so we can test it.

like OP originally said, the LLM doesn't have access to the actual process of the author, only the completed/refined output. Not sure why you need a concrete example to "test", but just think about the fact that the LLM has no idea how a writer brainstorms, re-iterates on their work, or even comes up with the ideas in the first place.

[deleted]

Re: Grammarly is offering ‘expert’ AI reviews from famous dead and living writers

#46

Post by wongarsu »

simianwords wrote: post #41
plewd wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

like OP originally said, the LLM doesn't have access to the actual process of the author, only the completed/refined output. Not sure why you need a concrete example to "test", but just think about the fact that the LLM has no idea how a writer brainstorms, re-iterates on their work, or even comes up with the ideas in the first place.

i don't buy this logic. if i have studied an author greatly i will be able to recognise patterns and be able to write like them. ex: i read a lot of shakespeare, understand patterns, understand where he came from, his biography and i will be able to write like him. why is it different for an LLM? i again don't get what the point is?

You will produce output that emulates the patters of Shakespeare's works, but you won't arrive at them by the same process Shakespeare did. You are subject to similar limitations as the llm in this case, just to a lesser degree (you share some 'human experience' with the author, and might be able to reason about their though process from biographies and such)

As another example, I can write a story about hobbits and elves in a LotR world with a style that approximates Tolkien. But it won't be colored by my first-hand WW1 experiences, and won't be written with the intention of creating a world that gives my conlangs cultural context, or the intention of making a bedtime story for my kids. I will never be able to write what Tolkien would have written because I'm not Tolkien, and do not see the world as Tolkien saw it. I don't even like designing languages

Re: Grammarly is offering ‘expert’ AI reviews from famous dead and living writers

#47

Post by throwaway290 »

DonHopkins wrote: post #22
ErroneousBosh wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't "teach" an LLM. It can't think. It's a simple pattern-matching algorithm, basically just an Eliza bot with a huge table of phrases.

You're not thinking, just regurgitating catch phrases that are factually incorrect hallucinations. So how are you any better than an LLM?

[flagged]

Re: Grammarly is offering ‘expert’ AI reviews from famous dead and living writers

#48

Post by RichardLake »

simianwords wrote: post #29
shafyy wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Enough with this analgoy. It's flawed on so many levels. First and foremost, stop devaluing humanitiy and hyping up AI companies by parroting their party line. Second, LLMs don't learn. They can hold a very limited amount of context, as you know. And every time you need to start over. So fuck no, "teaching" and LLM is nothing like teaching an actual human.

absolutely they can learn. you are being emotional and the original point is correct. i give the LLM my codebase and it indeed learns about it and can answer questions.

That isn't learning, it can read things in its context, and generate materials to assist answering further prompts but that doesn't change the model weights. It is just updating the context.

Unless you are actually fine tuning models, in which case sure, learning is taking place.

Re: Grammarly is offering ‘expert’ AI reviews from famous dead and living writers

#49

Post by simianwords »

RichardLake wrote: post #48
simianwords wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

absolutely they can learn. you are being emotional and the original point is correct. i give the LLM my codebase and it indeed learns about it and can answer questions.

That isn't learning, it can read things in its context, and generate materials to assist answering further prompts but that doesn't change the model weights. It is just updating the context. Unless you are actually fine tuning models, in which case sure, learning is taking place.

i don't know why you think it matters how it works internally. whether it changes its weights or not is not important. does it behave like a person who learns a thing? yes.

if i showed a human a codebase and asked them questions with good answers - yes i would say the human learned it. the analogy breaks at a point because of limited context but learning is a good enough word.

Re: Grammarly is offering ‘expert’ AI reviews from famous dead and living writers

#50

Post by simianwords »

wongarsu wrote: post #46
simianwords wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i don't buy this logic. if i have studied an author greatly i will be able to recognise patterns and be able to write like them. ex: i read a lot of shakespeare, understand patterns, understand where he came from, his biography and i will be able to write like him. why is it different for an LLM? i again don't get what the point is?

You will produce output that emulates the patters of Shakespeare's works, but you won't arrive at them by the same process Shakespeare did. You are subject to similar limitations as the llm in this case, just to a lesser degree (you share some 'human experience' with the author, and might be able to reason about their though process from biographies and such) As another example, I can write a story about hobbits and…

that's fair and you have highlighted a good limitation. but we do this all the time - we try to understand the author, learn from them and mimic them and we succeed to good extent.

that's why we have really good fake van gogh's for which a person can't tell the difference.

of course you can't do the same as the original person but you get close enough many times and as humans we do this frequently.

in the context of this post i think it is for sure possible to mimic a dead author and give steps to achieve writing that would sound like them using an LLM - just like a human.

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