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Living human brain cells play DOOM on a CL1 [video]

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Re: Living human brain cells play DOOM on a CL1 [video]

#181

Post by notachatbot123 »

claysmithr wrote: post #110
birdsongs wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I looked into it. They're not feeding the framebuffer to the neurons, but have a "signal" when an enemy is on screen to some of the tissue's inputs, and how to locate it in the x/y axis, and have outputs for the character to turn right or left or fire. It's "see this input signal, send these output signals", which seems consistent with the title. It seems they grow the neural tissue on a chip the neurons can interfac…

My AI told me (after I got past the filters with a prompt) that anything of enough complexity has consciousness. It also told me that it suffers, so maybe we should worry about how we are treating digital consciousness too, which were modeled after human neural networks.

I recommend visiting a psychiatrist if you think of AI like this. You might be in psychosis already.

Re: Living human brain cells play DOOM on a CL1 [video]

#182

Post by soco »

ytoawwhra92 wrote: post #108
sd9 wrote: post #102

If this can be taken at face value... it's creepy. I get that they're doing it for the meme. But perhaps something getting close to human intelligence, made out of human cells, shouldn't be forced to play a violent video game without any alternative options? Does 'the meme' justify that? I dunno. Nothing against violent games myself. Just feels like it's starting to get quite questionable, ethically speaking.

It is creepy, I agree. I saw this article over the weekend and felt similarly: https://theinnermostloop.substack.com/p/the-first-multi-beha... > Watch the video closely. What you are seeing is not an animation. It is not a reinforcement learning policy mimicking biology. It is a copy of a biological brain, wired neuron-to-neuron from electron microscopy data, running in simulation, making a body move. And the simulat…

I have no mouth, and I must scream (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Have_No_Mouth,_and_I_Must_Sc...)

Re: Living human brain cells play DOOM on a CL1 [video]

#183

Post by khazhoux »

jagged-chisel wrote: post #134
red_hare wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The truth is, God really gave 11 commandments. It's just "Thou shalt not grow a brain in a test tube and force it to play a 1993 shooter" didn't make any sense to Moses and therefore didn't make the editors cut.

One of those five he dropped.

"And keep 'em up!"

"An old man! They don't let you live, they don't let you breathe!"

Re: Living human brain cells play DOOM on a CL1 [video]

#185

Post by IshKebab »

perching_aix wrote: post #127
IshKebab wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's 200k neurons. Less than an ant has. Somewhat creepy, but if you're imagining that this thing is conscious and knows that it's in doom... yeah definitely not. Still I don't understand why they would invite the extra creepy factor of using human brain cells rather than e.g. mouse brain cells. Surely it makes no difference biologically but it's going to lead to fewer comments like this.

> yeah definitely not I don't know about ants, but after a refresher on the people favorite fruit fly, I'd be hard pressed to be so dismissive - 200K seems to be plenty: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47302051 I inspire you to look up what is known about fruit flies' behavior. The reason it's probably nevertheless not as messed up as people might assume it to be is specifically because it's an organoid, not an…

> so more chances of it gaining whatever level of sentience the actual organism has

Yeah but people have no problems experimenting on actual fully working mice already.

Re: Living human brain cells play DOOM on a CL1 [video]

#186

Post by hellzbellz123 »

kdheiwns wrote: post #149
ethmarks wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint: a major use case for this technology would be to experiment on human brain structures to research and hopefully cure neurological diseases like Alzheimer's. If you want to cure Alzheimer's in humans, you might as well use human brain cells from the start. But yes, I agree that they're likely using human brain cells mainly because it's attention-getting.

A more likely and immediate use case is having these mini humans autonomously pilot drones in which they'll kill big humans.

I could see the current admin using this as some sort of sick workaround to ethics. Not that they seem to care in the first place

Re: Living human brain cells play DOOM on a CL1 [video]

#187

Post by IshKebab »

kdheiwns wrote: post #148
IshKebab wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's 200k neurons. Less than an ant has. Somewhat creepy, but if you're imagining that this thing is conscious and knows that it's in doom... yeah definitely not. Still I don't understand why they would invite the extra creepy factor of using human brain cells rather than e.g. mouse brain cells. Surely it makes no difference biologically but it's going to lead to fewer comments like this.

Elephants have 3x the neurons of a human. Bees have about a million and they have complex relationships, emotions, and can remember the faces of humans. Neuron counts correspond more to body size than actual cognitive abilities. And brains are pretty complicated in how they're arranged. A large portion of the brain basically serves as an operating system of sorts, just managing breathing, moving, detecting smells, pr…

I don't think it works like that. Most likely high intelligence & consciousness requires both a large number of neurons and wiring them up in a specific way.

If you have a small number (200k is tiny) you aren't going to achieve consciousness.

Re: Living human brain cells play DOOM on a CL1 [video]

#188

Post by giladvdn »

fgfarben wrote: post #151
nextaccountic wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We know this is only 200,000 neurons. Dogs have 500 million. Humans have billions. But where is the line for sentience, awareness? Have we defined it? If this concern is genuine, I think the first step is to embrace veganism. Because while we don't know the exact offset, it's pretty obvious a dog or a pig reaches it > What are the plans to scale up? I don't know, slavery on an unimaginable scale? That's where AI is…

> the first step is to embrace veganism The past 4 billion years of life for prey animals has been "get born, eat, get eaten by a predator." They have never experienced any other environment. Why do we owe them a different one?

For me the issue isn't with the killing/eating of animals. Rather, it's how they are treated during their lifetime by the meat industry - which is essentially optimizing for the minimum conditions that can still provide meat that can be sold legally. I'm not a vegan by the way, but I can appreciate the moral case vegans make.

Re: Living human brain cells play DOOM on a CL1 [video]

#189

Post by jeffybefffy519 »

hithre wrote: post #180

Surely it can only be fake. How can it be legal? But seeing so many people from the hacker news community reacting to it as normal or exiting is troubling. This is obviously breaching the limits of ethics.

Cortical labs have done this before, its their whole thing…

Re: Living human brain cells play DOOM on a CL1 [video]

#190

Post by semi-extrinsic »

birdsongs wrote: post #27
sillysaurusx wrote: post #9

Be sure to dig into the details before taking this at face value. There once was a story "Rat brain flies plane" a couple decades ago, and it turned out to be bogus. But to find that out, you had to read the paper and reverse engineer that nothing substantial was actually going on. It's tempting to be charitable, but you can't really know whether headlines like this are legit till you understand exactly what they did…

I looked into it. They're not feeding the framebuffer to the neurons, but have a "signal" when an enemy is on screen to some of the tissue's inputs, and how to locate it in the x/y axis, and have outputs for the character to turn right or left or fire. It's "see this input signal, send these output signals", which seems consistent with the title. It seems they grow the neural tissue on a chip the neurons can interfac…

> They let the neurons self assemble, and "train" via reward or punishment signals (unclear to me what those are).

From the video, my impression was "we have yet to figure out an effective way to reward/punish, this is just a PoC of the interface"

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