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2013 Automobile of the Year: Tesla Model S

automobilemag.com

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Re: 2013 Automobile of the Year: Tesla Model S

#131

Post by tsotha »

cletus wrote: post #79

The Tesla Model S is a great-looking car but, unlike some, I still don't see electric cars as being the future. Batteries are still too heavy, take too long to charge, are too expensive and require materials that in widespread use will probably become far more of a problem than fossil fuels in terms of scarcity. Of course, there can be and no doubt will be technological innovation in this space but (IMHO) the future…

>It may be some kind of hydrogen-rich fuel (methane or ammonia)...

Unlikely to be ammonia. Ammonia is dangerous in the kind of concentrations that would make it useful for fuel. When ammonia was used in refrigeration whole families would occasionally die when their refrigerator sprang a leak.

Re: 2013 Automobile of the Year: Tesla Model S

#132

Post by tsotha »

jblow wrote: post #91
cletus wrote: post #79

The Tesla Model S is a great-looking car but, unlike some, I still don't see electric cars as being the future. Batteries are still too heavy, take too long to charge, are too expensive and require materials that in widespread use will probably become far more of a problem than fossil fuels in terms of scarcity. Of course, there can be and no doubt will be technological innovation in this space but (IMHO) the future…

Those of us who own electric cars know that electric cars have already won. They are just too good compared to regular somewhat-junky gasoline cars. The benefits are too numerous to list. The only problem that I have with my Roadster is that if I want to take a long road trip, there has to be a big stopover in the middle, which makes trips much longer. The Model S solves that. Therefore, EVs have won. They are here n…

Uh huh. How much did you spend on your Roadster, and how much is it going to cost to replace the battery pack when it wears out after only ten years or so?

Re: 2013 Automobile of the Year: Tesla Model S

#133

Post by Xcelerate »

Xcelerate wrote: post #37
CamperBob2 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a big Tesla fan, but I disagree. The only way electric cars can possibly make sense is if the batteries are swappable. The electric cars being built now are evolutionary dead ends, IMHO.

If room-temperature superconducting ever becomes a reality, then each car will be loaded with a SMES unit ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superconducting_magnetic_energy... ) that charges instantly.

Huh, this is weird. Somebody downvoted this comment and my other reply. Care to explain why or are you just going to leave me mystified?

Re: 2013 Automobile of the Year: Tesla Model S

#134

Post by tsotha »

mibbitier wrote: post #101
revelation wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Internal combustion engines are not at all simple. Sleek animations might make it seem like that, but when you are blowing stuff up , that tends to complicate things. In comparison, electrical motors are extremely simple and maintenance-free. All while being on a level of efficiency that just can't be reached with a combustion engine.

Burning coal to make electricity, then transmitting that electricity all over the country, wasting some of it along the way... Then using that to charge a battery, then using that to power a motor. I'm not sure it sounds particularly efficient unless you completely ignore all the work that goes into making the electricity :/

It's actually quite a bit more efficient than an internal combustion engine, even with power line and battery losses. That's why EVs have the advantage in per-mile fuel costs. Power plants are quite a bit more efficient than the engine in your car. I don't have the numbers on hand but it's something like 40% vs 25%.

Re: 2013 Automobile of the Year: Tesla Model S

#135

Post by erikpukinskis »

brc wrote: post #88
mncolinlee wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would guess a mix of the positive jobs report and short covering from margin calls is at fault. Right-leaning investors have seemed to want the company to fail for months, but Tesla is looking resilient with their good backlog and a strong economy. They're paying back their DOE loan early.

>Right-leaning investors have seemed to want the company to fail for months, but Tesla is looking resilient with their good backlog and a strong economy. They're paying back their DOE loan early. Seriously? You think people are prepared to lose money to make a political point?

It's not a political point. They actually believe Tesla will fail. They want it to fail because it's fun seeing your predictions come true.

Folks' politics and their beliefs about the world are all tied up together.

Re: 2013 Automobile of the Year: Tesla Model S

#136

Post by refurb »

chc wrote: post #94
jblow wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those of us who own electric cars know that electric cars have already won. They are just too good compared to regular somewhat-junky gasoline cars. The benefits are too numerous to list. The only problem that I have with my Roadster is that if I want to take a long road trip, there has to be a big stopover in the middle, which makes trips much longer. The Model S solves that. Therefore, EVs have won. They are here n…

Aren't EVs totally unusable if you live in an apartment? That was my impression when I looked into them. Like, how would I charge a car in my parking stall?

Forget the parking stall, what about the big cities (like SF) where a sizable chunk of all cars are parked on the street.

Re: 2013 Automobile of the Year: Tesla Model S

#137

Post by mmoche »

tsotha wrote: post #132
jblow wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those of us who own electric cars know that electric cars have already won. They are just too good compared to regular somewhat-junky gasoline cars. The benefits are too numerous to list. The only problem that I have with my Roadster is that if I want to take a long road trip, there has to be a big stopover in the middle, which makes trips much longer. The Model S solves that. Therefore, EVs have won. They are here n…

Uh huh. How much did you spend on your Roadster, and how much is it going to cost to replace the battery pack when it wears out after only ten years or so?

How long do people realistically own cars? Only 60% of people keep their cars more than four years...I'd suspect 10 is closer to 5%.

source: http://www.autoweek.com/article/20090714/carnews/907149994

Re: 2013 Automobile of the Year: Tesla Model S

#138

Post by confluence »

Here are some video reviews of the Model S (notice the gas-heads gushing at how awesome it is to drive/look at/fun):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kCG-WqpVnI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOdsTuaJEfc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoFVO31CbE0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpySOCBqntI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEkIMmAX1iM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9SsUbBqOkY

Re: 2013 Automobile of the Year: Tesla Model S

#139

Post by CamperBob2 »

aidenn0 wrote: post #124
CamperBob2 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, hey, this is JM from RAD. Didn't see your user name at first. :) Re: 220V outlets, it's surprisingly hard to find the true average power consumption by a dryer, now that I just tried. I do know that the heating element in a dryer is usually rated for 5000 watts+, but you have to keep in mind that it doesn't run at a 100% duty cycle, even on high heat. (I can't find anything that talks about what the typical duty…

And this would be a problem if half the ICE car owning public went out and bought electric cars all in the same month. There will be time to upgrade the distribution grid.

Before 2025? Will never happen.

Re: 2013 Automobile of the Year: Tesla Model S

#140

Post by tsotha »

mmoche wrote: post #137
tsotha wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh huh. How much did you spend on your Roadster, and how much is it going to cost to replace the battery pack when it wears out after only ten years or so?

How long do people realistically own cars? Only 60% of people keep their cars more than four years...I'd suspect 10 is closer to 5%. source: http://www.autoweek.com/article/20090714/carnews/907149994

The average car on the road is eleven years old, so even if you only keep your car for four years when you sell it some cheap bastard (like me) is going to buy it used and drive it for awhile longer. My guess is EVs are going to have quite a bit steeper depreciation curves than standard vehicles. A ten year old Leaf on its original battery pack will be essentially worthless, and you can probably work the curve backward from there.
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