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AI doesn't replace white collar work

marble.onl

51–60 of 110 posts

Re: AI doesn't replace white collar work

#51
post #18

It's the same error pattern every time: identify what AI is currently "bad" at, define that as the essential core of the work, declare the work safe. Wait 6 months, shocked Pikachu gif.

hard to tell if its click bait or if these people cant project into the future

It's extremely common for people to be unable to project into the future when there is a bias in the way. Anytime you see a blatant failure to look beyond the tip of their nose by a person, it's almost always due to their own biases getting in the way (ie it's irrationality, they're giving up reason in exchange for not having to challenge their own position/s).

The other side of that irrationality coin is 2D extrapolation: a thing happened (or a context is such N), so therefore I shall extrapolate it happening again (once or many times) into the future on a smooth line, so as to fit my bias.

Re: AI doesn't replace white collar work

#52
I don’t think people actually read the article; because it makes a unique point about certain types of queries:

I would have been interested in the experience and thoughts of someone whose opinions I respected, both as a social thing and to learn something.

In other words, some types of questions are aimed at 1) building a social connection with the person you’re asking and 2) because you want to know what they, specifically, think about their topic.

AI can’t really replace either of these. AIs might function as a weak social replacement for some people, but you aren’t really going to advance in your personal or professional life by making friends with Claude.

A good example of the second one are AskMeAnything type forum posts: I don’t care what some generic celebrity/famous figure thinks about something, I care specifically about what George Clooney thinks about it. The AI will always be guessing, building a model on what George has said in the past, but it will never actually say what he thinks right now.

For a more serious and contemporary example: there are dozens of videos on YouTube right now, interviews with various experts and pundits on the situation in Iran. Many of them have hundreds of thousands of views. But why would someone watch this instead of just asking ChatGPT what’s going on in Iran? Because we want to know what this particular person thinks.

Re: AI doesn't replace white collar work

#53
post #36

I don’t get how you can see where we started three years ago and see where we are today and then _confidently_ say AI will not continue to improve. It’s not about where we are today folks (the intercept of the line). It’s about the rate of progress (the slope of the line).

Is the line monotonic and continuously differentiable?

I agree with you that this article isn’t particularly convincing.

Re: AI doesn't replace white collar work

#54
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The goal posts are becoming more narrow and these posts are becoming more frequent. It is almost like a therapy session for those facing an existential crisis while they continue to train the very thing that will replace them by giving it more training data to do their work.

This is a bit tricky, though. You could say the goalposts for self-driving cars are becoming narrower, but some things require complete automation to make a significant change.

That's because in the 1% of cases it fails it could result in someone dying. In fields where there isn't the same level of risk or regulation involved it shouldn't be as resistant to change.

Re: AI doesn't replace white collar work

#55
From my opinion, the block layoffs were a test, to see how a) a software company manages with only half of its employees now that there's powerful LLMs, and b) how the remaining employees react to the imminent threat of them being laid off as well.

If block succeeds, we'll see more layoffs of that kind, probably even more extreme ones. You are not top senior level employee? Out. You don't single handedly cause 30% of the AI spend on your 15 person team? Out.

People say how in five years there won't be seniors because one stopped junior hiring... in five years the seniors won't be needed either. Already today, we have single person billion dollar exits, high schoolers making millions from food apps. This is thanks to LLMs.

The technology is there to replace most of the white collar work, it's just not applied enough yet. The economic system needs to adapt to not having labor being such a big redistributor.

Re: AI doesn't replace white collar work

#56
post #18

It's the same error pattern every time: identify what AI is currently "bad" at, define that as the essential core of the work, declare the work safe. Wait 6 months, shocked Pikachu gif.

interesting, this is basically what Venkatesh Rao pointed out back in 2013: https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2013/07/10/you-are-not-an-artisan...

Basically we do not rationally analyze what work can be automated and what work is forever safe. We just assume that "sexy work" is safe, and work backwards to figure out how to explain this belief to ourselves.

Re: AI doesn't replace white collar work

#57
Technology didn't replace agricultural workers either, but you'd think it did when you consider how few people work in agriculture as a share of the population today.

By providing productivity tools you do effectively replace jobs because there's only so much of a good or service a person will want to consume.

For example, just because a game dev studios can make 10x more games with AI, this doesn't mean the industry will make 10x more money unless demand for video games increases. Instead what is likely to happen as the cost of making games reduces is that the price of games for consumers will drop too as competition increases, which will turn hurt game dev profits, so game dev studios will likely have to be 10x smaller in the future – even if there's still technically people working in the industry.

However when the work of agricultural workers became increasingly automated there were lots of other industries people could work instead, at the time that was factory work, and although the details will be different, I'm sure to some extent this will happen with white collar work too. But the question I'd ask today is what is that alternative source work, and is it as good as white collar work?

Our economy went from, farming -> factory work -> office work. I strongly suspect the next step will be more people working in manual labour jobs and working in servant type roles. It's hard to see where else the demand will come from.

Re: AI doesn't replace white collar work

#58
post #55

From my opinion, the block layoffs were a test, to see how a) a software company manages with only half of its employees now that there's powerful LLMs, and b) how the remaining employees react to the imminent threat of them being laid off as well. If block succeeds, we'll see more layoffs of that kind, probably even more extreme ones. You are not top senior level employee? Out. You don't single handedly cause 30% of…

Yep.

I have started to say that it will be irresponsible for people to. Manually write code in a year or two from now - and I am setting the systems I work for up to that.

It will happen sooner than later.

Already now I can not compete with agentic programming.

Re: AI doesn't replace white collar work

#59
People used to be programmers, but the ratio of typing to problem solving eventually caught up. Now programming is just part of the job.

Software engineering is falling to this trend too (somewhat)

The solution is to stop merely thinking of yourself as a software engineer and move up to the level of “manager of agents”.. but actually, managers deal with human stuff and this is fascinatingly mechanical - in fact even the unpredictability of these new tools is quite predictable. And so, a more useful framing is “software development process engineer”.

You can look at all the literature on building factories and production lines for ideas on what you’ll be doing.

You shouldn’t ever just have your agent write the software then review and ship it. You are missing massive opportunities to take yourself out of more loops over time. What self-reflection are you and the model doing to catch opportunities to improve? What is your method for codifying your acceptance criteria, so your agents can do the work to higher quality over time without you in the loop to get it there? What’s your process for continuous improvement? How do your models know what work other team members’ models are doing simultaneously so there’s less stepping on toes? Can THAT be automated so you don’t need to sit in Slack and trade “human-verbal locks” on areas of the architecture?

There’s immense room for creativity in the role of a software development process engineer.

Re: AI doesn't replace white collar work

#60

The fact that most of these "everything will be fine because we still need some humans in the loop" arguments never really talk about is that AI doesn't need to replace literally every white collar job to cause massive economic damage. The unemployment rate during the peak of the Great Depression was 25%, not 100%.

Exactly.

Clearly, some white-collar jobs will be replaced. Hard to argue against that, given it's already beginning to happen. So the question becomes what is the eventual rate of conversion and what is the subsequent economic impact over time? I don't think anyone has a credible handle on that, except to note that it won't be zero.

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