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2013 Automobile of the Year: Tesla Model S

automobilemag.com

111–120 of 286 posts

Re: 2013 Automobile of the Year: Tesla Model S

#111
post #45
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I prefer tactile response as well, however I'd guess that good voice activated controls will be introduced soon enough.

I'd really hate to have to have to say "increase driver side temperature by 2 degrees" when I could much more easily just turn a knob without looking, thanks to muscle memory & tactile feedback.

But, your car can take so many commands that one cannot make a physical knob for everything.

Re: 2013 Automobile of the Year: Tesla Model S

#112

The Fisker Karma was their 2012 Automobile of the Year. In 2011 it was the Volt.

The title of this submission is misleading because when you say "Car of the Year" you think either Motor Trend or Car & Driver. Automobile Magazine is a distant, distant third place in prestige and respect; I didn't even know that they did an annual award.

Re: 2013 Automobile of the Year: Tesla Model S

#113
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Burning coal / electricity / oil to explore, drill, transport, refine, and re-transport oil ... Then using that to fill your car, so you can blow it up inside an engine. Sounds a little less efficient than the electricity thing when you look at the full sequence. And this is even in the case where electricity comes from dirty sources; some states, like California, have an energy mix where electricity comes mostly fro…

Difference is though, with an internal combustion engine, the "turning fuel into power" happens inside the car. Whereas with electric cars, it happens at a power plant... then gets sent to the car via electricity, with lots of it wasted along the way. Personally, I don't see electric cars as solving anything. We should be looking at generating the power in the car, from things that are plentiful - water, dirt, garbag…

No, Gasoline is highly refined compared to oil. Diesel isn't as much. So "Turning fuel into energy" is really "Turning Oil into Fuel using chemicals and energy which in turn can be turned into energy" You still need a refinery and a very large distribution network consisting or trains, trucks, and pipelines. Your assumption of transmission energy loss is silly when you compare the required energy of transporting things like oil and water around.

Re: 2013 Automobile of the Year: Tesla Model S

#114
post #79

The Tesla Model S is a great-looking car but, unlike some, I still don't see electric cars as being the future. Batteries are still too heavy, take too long to charge, are too expensive and require materials that in widespread use will probably become far more of a problem than fossil fuels in terms of scarcity. Of course, there can be and no doubt will be technological innovation in this space but (IMHO) the future…

You have literally no idea what you are talking about but that's OK because technology doesn't care about what you think - it just happens (cf. computer adoption, robotic automation, AI automation, cars, trains, trucks, looms, engines, planes, ships).

ICE vehicles are relatively complex and not actually cheap going forwards. We're past peak oil and emissions are now being priced (CO2 pollution is no longer free). That means the only way prices are going for ICE vehicles is up.

Electric cars on the other hand don't care what fuel source powers them, are riding the battery-cost curve down, are highly efficient, are relatively simple in operation/maintenance, cheap to run and have no emissions that need to be priced.

Hydrogen vehicles are just plain stupid from an efficiency stand point - where are you going to get the hydrogen exactly? Purifying it is too expensive - and since it's lighter than air - there is no economical source of hydrogen on earth. It'd be cheaper to fuel your car with coal.

Warren Buffett has a famous saying: Don't make statements outside your field of competence - lest you look accidentally foolish.

Re: 2013 Automobile of the Year: Tesla Model S

#115

The Fisker Karma was their 2012 Automobile of the Year. In 2011 it was the Volt.

That's not true, in 2012 The Audi A7 was their car of the year. So that shows that they're not just always picking an electric car no matter what.

The original article also mentions that the Fisker Karma won their "Design of the Year" award in 2012, but not the "Car of the Year".

Re: 2013 Automobile of the Year: Tesla Model S

#116
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Burning coal / electricity / oil to explore, drill, transport, refine, and re-transport oil ... Then using that to fill your car, so you can blow it up inside an engine. Sounds a little less efficient than the electricity thing when you look at the full sequence. And this is even in the case where electricity comes from dirty sources; some states, like California, have an energy mix where electricity comes mostly fro…

Difference is though, with an internal combustion engine, the "turning fuel into power" happens inside the car. Whereas with electric cars, it happens at a power plant... then gets sent to the car via electricity, with lots of it wasted along the way. Personally, I don't see electric cars as solving anything. We should be looking at generating the power in the car, from things that are plentiful - water, dirt, garbag…

Your average car engine is dramatically less efficient than a power plant.

Re: 2013 Automobile of the Year: Tesla Model S

#117
post #79

The Tesla Model S is a great-looking car but, unlike some, I still don't see electric cars as being the future. Batteries are still too heavy, take too long to charge, are too expensive and require materials that in widespread use will probably become far more of a problem than fossil fuels in terms of scarcity. Of course, there can be and no doubt will be technological innovation in this space but (IMHO) the future…

How's gasoline working out now in New Jersey? Not well. There is currently a massive amount of land and a massive amount of infrastructure (thousands and thousands of tankers, for one) devoted to making gasoline available on every corner, nearly worldwide. If a similar amount of land and infrastructure were devoted to, say, swappable electric batteries, electric cars would have no problems in the "long trip" departme…

What an unfortunate comment/comparison by you.

http://updates.jalopnik.com/post/34669789863/more-than-a-doz...

Re: 2013 Automobile of the Year: Tesla Model S

#118
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Burning coal / electricity / oil to explore, drill, transport, refine, and re-transport oil ... Then using that to fill your car, so you can blow it up inside an engine. Sounds a little less efficient than the electricity thing when you look at the full sequence. And this is even in the case where electricity comes from dirty sources; some states, like California, have an energy mix where electricity comes mostly fro…

Difference is though, with an internal combustion engine, the "turning fuel into power" happens inside the car. Whereas with electric cars, it happens at a power plant... then gets sent to the car via electricity, with lots of it wasted along the way. Personally, I don't see electric cars as solving anything. We should be looking at generating the power in the car, from things that are plentiful - water, dirt, garbag…

My understanding is that power loss through transmission averages at 6-7% for electricity (don't know if the Wikipedia article includes all losses happening: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_power_transmission#Los...), which is really not that bad. I am not an engineer, but converting oil to gasoline/diesel, distributing it and burning it at an inefficient RPM in a car might be just as bad or worse.

Re: 2013 Automobile of the Year: Tesla Model S

#119
post #91
post #79

The Tesla Model S is a great-looking car but, unlike some, I still don't see electric cars as being the future. Batteries are still too heavy, take too long to charge, are too expensive and require materials that in widespread use will probably become far more of a problem than fossil fuels in terms of scarcity. Of course, there can be and no doubt will be technological innovation in this space but (IMHO) the future…

Those of us who own electric cars know that electric cars have already won. They are just too good compared to regular somewhat-junky gasoline cars. The benefits are too numerous to list. The only problem that I have with my Roadster is that if I want to take a long road trip, there has to be a big stopover in the middle, which makes trips much longer. The Model S solves that. Therefore, EVs have won. They are here n…

So to get an electric car that affords me as much freedom as a fossil burner I /only/ need to drop $102k? Sign me up! /s Electric cars will have won when normal people can afford them. I hope that'll be soon, but it's definitely not the case right now.

Re: 2013 Automobile of the Year: Tesla Model S

#120
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... and on the battery chemistry issue, Teslas use Lithium-Ion batteries, just like we have been using in laptops for forever. They are not exotic.

You mean the ones that typically only last a year or 2?

Tesla's EV batteries already in common use last a lot longer than that (7-10 years), so I am not sure what your point is.
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