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Living human brain cells play DOOM on a CL1 [video]

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Re: Living human brain cells play DOOM on a CL1 [video]

#31

Post by birdsongs »

birdsongs wrote: post #27
sillysaurusx wrote: post #9

Be sure to dig into the details before taking this at face value. There once was a story "Rat brain flies plane" a couple decades ago, and it turned out to be bogus. But to find that out, you had to read the paper and reverse engineer that nothing substantial was actually going on. It's tempting to be charitable, but you can't really know whether headlines like this are legit till you understand exactly what they did…

I looked into it. They're not feeding the framebuffer to the neurons, but have a "signal" when an enemy is on screen to some of the tissue's inputs, and how to locate it in the x/y axis, and have outputs for the character to turn right or left or fire. It's "see this input signal, send these output signals", which seems consistent with the title. It seems they grow the neural tissue on a chip the neurons can interfac…

Replying to myself: how long before one of these with the neuron count of a corvid and trained on pattern recognition gets plugged into a drone?

This is a very dark path, and I could not trust the people in charge less.

Re: Living human brain cells play DOOM on a CL1 [video]

#33

Post by everforward »

lp4v4n wrote: post #19

It’s the first time I’ve heard about this company, and of course I haven’t taken the time to check how real their product is, but honestly, for me it’s very difficult to believe we currently have the technology to correctly integrate a living neuron into a chip, let alone compute anything meaningful with it. From what I’ve read elsewhere, our understanding of neurons is still very basic, and we need a lot more fundam…

I haven’t looked into it deeply either.

To my knowledge, we understand how an individual neuron works quite well. We just don’t really understand macro effects in large networks of neurons.

The video seems buzz wordy. Without looking into this too deeply, it seems like they’re using neurons individually or in small groups rather than creating a true “brain”. I would guess they’re using neurons or small groups of them sort of like transistors that do a single basic thing rather than a full “brain” that they just feed images to.

Re: Living human brain cells play DOOM on a CL1 [video]

#34

Post by delichon »

birdsongs wrote: post #27
sillysaurusx wrote: post #9

Be sure to dig into the details before taking this at face value. There once was a story "Rat brain flies plane" a couple decades ago, and it turned out to be bogus. But to find that out, you had to read the paper and reverse engineer that nothing substantial was actually going on. It's tempting to be charitable, but you can't really know whether headlines like this are legit till you understand exactly what they did…

I looked into it. They're not feeding the framebuffer to the neurons, but have a "signal" when an enemy is on screen to some of the tissue's inputs, and how to locate it in the x/y axis, and have outputs for the character to turn right or left or fire. It's "see this input signal, send these output signals", which seems consistent with the title. It seems they grow the neural tissue on a chip the neurons can interfac…

> It's legitimately horrifying to me.

Would you feel any differently if a product from this tech used the user's own neurons grown from their stem cells?

Re: Living human brain cells play DOOM on a CL1 [video]

#35

Post by jstummbillig »

birdsongs wrote: post #27
sillysaurusx wrote: post #9

Be sure to dig into the details before taking this at face value. There once was a story "Rat brain flies plane" a couple decades ago, and it turned out to be bogus. But to find that out, you had to read the paper and reverse engineer that nothing substantial was actually going on. It's tempting to be charitable, but you can't really know whether headlines like this are legit till you understand exactly what they did…

I looked into it. They're not feeding the framebuffer to the neurons, but have a "signal" when an enemy is on screen to some of the tissue's inputs, and how to locate it in the x/y axis, and have outputs for the character to turn right or left or fire. It's "see this input signal, send these output signals", which seems consistent with the title. It seems they grow the neural tissue on a chip the neurons can interfac…

> all these people are so excited to explain, but not once, ever

What do you mean? What is this class of people in your mind? There are tons of people who consider and talk about the ethics behind what they are doing, long before most people would think it remotely relevant (leading AI labs being an example, and I know the same to be true of various geneticists startups).

I do agree that the entire presentation in this case is bewildering.

Re: Living human brain cells play DOOM on a CL1 [video]

#36

Post by newsy-combi »

bogwog wrote: post #23
virgildotcodes wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% We know that neurons can produce subjective experience. This is the first time in my life that I've felt a scientific avenue of research should shut down.

Sounds like you're applying scifi tropes to real life. Don't do that. That's why some people are developing "AI psychosis" today after playing with LLMs.

You're equivocating two totally separate things

Re: Living human brain cells play DOOM on a CL1 [video]

#37

Post by birdsongs »

jstummbillig wrote: post #35
birdsongs wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I looked into it. They're not feeding the framebuffer to the neurons, but have a "signal" when an enemy is on screen to some of the tissue's inputs, and how to locate it in the x/y axis, and have outputs for the character to turn right or left or fire. It's "see this input signal, send these output signals", which seems consistent with the title. It seems they grow the neural tissue on a chip the neurons can interfac…

> all these people are so excited to explain, but not once, ever What do you mean? What is this class of people in your mind? There are tons of people who consider and talk about the ethics behind what they are doing, long before most people would think it remotely relevant (leading AI labs being an example, and I know the same to be true of various geneticists startups). I do agree that the entire presentation in th…

> What do you mean? What is this class of people in your mind?

I'm specifically talking about this presentation in this article (the video and release details of CL1 doom). Did you read it / watch it?

Re: Living human brain cells play DOOM on a CL1 [video]

#38

Post by NegativeLatency »

blizdiddy wrote: post #15
virgildotcodes wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% We know that neurons can produce subjective experience. This is the first time in my life that I've felt a scientific avenue of research should shut down.

Animal testing, weapons testing, medical trials, cloning, psychological experiments… had you just never considered them before? Why this?

This is somewhat novel unlike say weapons manufacturing. Also assuming that the GP is in the tech community to some degree, it makes sense they’d have a stronger reaction.

There’s lots of bad stuff humans shouldn’t be doing.

Re: Living human brain cells play DOOM on a CL1 [video]

#39

Post by Chris2048 »

birdsongs wrote: post #27
sillysaurusx wrote: post #9

Be sure to dig into the details before taking this at face value. There once was a story "Rat brain flies plane" a couple decades ago, and it turned out to be bogus. But to find that out, you had to read the paper and reverse engineer that nothing substantial was actually going on. It's tempting to be charitable, but you can't really know whether headlines like this are legit till you understand exactly what they did…

I looked into it. They're not feeding the framebuffer to the neurons, but have a "signal" when an enemy is on screen to some of the tissue's inputs, and how to locate it in the x/y axis, and have outputs for the character to turn right or left or fire. It's "see this input signal, send these output signals", which seems consistent with the title. It seems they grow the neural tissue on a chip the neurons can interfac…

> not once, ever, in the video speak of ethics

On the contrary, I dislike premature ethics discussion, where you end up wildly speculating what the tech might become and riffing off that, greatly padding whatever relative technical content you had. I don't want every technical paper to turn into that, ethics should be treated as a higher-level overview of concerns in a field, with a study dedicated to the ethical concerns of that field (by domain-specific ethics specialists).

Is your concern weapon automaton, or animal rights?

Re: Living human brain cells play DOOM on a CL1 [video]

#40

Post by DrewADesign »

birdsongs wrote: post #31
birdsongs wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I looked into it. They're not feeding the framebuffer to the neurons, but have a "signal" when an enemy is on screen to some of the tissue's inputs, and how to locate it in the x/y axis, and have outputs for the character to turn right or left or fire. It's "see this input signal, send these output signals", which seems consistent with the title. It seems they grow the neural tissue on a chip the neurons can interfac…

Replying to myself: how long before one of these with the neuron count of a corvid and trained on pattern recognition gets plugged into a drone? This is a very dark path, and I could not trust the people in charge less.

I’m kind of sick of how readily the non-managerial tech world accepts “what happens is someone else does this immoral thing before us?!” rhetoric as a real answer to questioning whether or not we should contribute our talent and ideas to something that we, deep down, know is bad for fellow humans.
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