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Living human brain cells play DOOM on a CL1 [video]

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Re: Living human brain cells play DOOM on a CL1 [video]

#21

Post by api »

blizdiddy wrote: post #15
virgildotcodes wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% We know that neurons can produce subjective experience. This is the first time in my life that I've felt a scientific avenue of research should shut down.

Animal testing, weapons testing, medical trials, cloning, psychological experiments… had you just never considered them before? Why this?

Not sure why this is being downvoted. It’s a valid point. This neuron chip stuff is far less problematic than a lot of animal testing where you clearly have a whole organism that experiences something.

Factory farming too. The way we treat chickens in particular is out of a horror movie, and that’s in countries with some standards. Globally I’m sure many billions of animals are constantly submitted to the most grotesque torture for food.

Re: Living human brain cells play DOOM on a CL1 [video]

#22

Post by sunir »

neom wrote: post #7

It seems a bit more complicated than first blush: https://www.rdworldonline.com/the-neurons-playing-doom-are-a... Personally, dislike this direction a lot. I don't like that they're using a killing game (I understand the trope, doesn't make me like it any less) and the general idea of this whole thing makes me quite uneasy.

Do you feel like you have no mouth and you must scream?

Re: Living human brain cells play DOOM on a CL1 [video]

#23

Post by bogwog »

virgildotcodes wrote: post #4
dustfinger wrote: post #3

> We’ve combined lab-grown neurons with silicon chips and made it available to anyone, for first time ever. There is a line somewhere here that I personally feel we should not cross.

100% We know that neurons can produce subjective experience. This is the first time in my life that I've felt a scientific avenue of research should shut down.

Sounds like you're applying scifi tropes to real life. Don't do that. That's why some people are developing "AI psychosis" today after playing with LLMs.

Re: Living human brain cells play DOOM on a CL1 [video]

#26

Post by wigster »

exe34 wrote: post #24
dustfinger wrote: post #3

> We’ve combined lab-grown neurons with silicon chips and made it available to anyone, for first time ever. There is a line somewhere here that I personally feel we should not cross.

I have no mouth and I must scream.

it is a terrifying thought.

Re: Living human brain cells play DOOM on a CL1 [video]

#27

Post by birdsongs »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #9

Be sure to dig into the details before taking this at face value. There once was a story "Rat brain flies plane" a couple decades ago, and it turned out to be bogus. But to find that out, you had to read the paper and reverse engineer that nothing substantial was actually going on. It's tempting to be charitable, but you can't really know whether headlines like this are legit till you understand exactly what they did…

I looked into it. They're not feeding the framebuffer to the neurons, but have a "signal" when an enemy is on screen to some of the tissue's inputs, and how to locate it in the x/y axis, and have outputs for the character to turn right or left or fire.

It's "see this input signal, send these output signals", which seems consistent with the title.

It seems they grow the neural tissue on a chip the neurons can interface with and send out / receive electrical impulses. They let the neurons self assemble, and "train" via reward or punishment signals (unclear to me what those are).

Either way this makes me nauseous in a way I haven't experienced much with tech. The telling thing for me is, all these people are so excited to explain, but not once, ever, in the video speak of ethics or try to mitigate concerns.

We know this is only 200,000 neurons. Dogs have 500 million. Humans have billions. But where is the line for sentience, awareness? Have we defined it? Can we, if we don't understand it ourselves? What are the plans to scale up?

It's legitimately horrifying to me.

Re: Living human brain cells play DOOM on a CL1 [video]

#28

Post by [deleted] »

sunir wrote: post #22
neom wrote: post #7

It seems a bit more complicated than first blush: https://www.rdworldonline.com/the-neurons-playing-doom-are-a... Personally, dislike this direction a lot. I don't like that they're using a killing game (I understand the trope, doesn't make me like it any less) and the general idea of this whole thing makes me quite uneasy.

Do you feel like you have no mouth and you must scream?

[deleted]

Re: Living human brain cells play DOOM on a CL1 [video]

#29

Post by everforward »

bogwog wrote: post #23
virgildotcodes wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% We know that neurons can produce subjective experience. This is the first time in my life that I've felt a scientific avenue of research should shut down.

Sounds like you're applying scifi tropes to real life. Don't do that. That's why some people are developing "AI psychosis" today after playing with LLMs.

The fear is that we don’t really understand what causes consciousness. I think that’s a valid fear, because we can’t know ahead of time whether we will inadvertently create a “person” inside the machine.

Unless your proposition is that no collection of human neurons outside of live birth can become sentient, and I’m not sure how you’d arrive at that conclusion without invoking some kind of spiritual argument.

Re: Living human brain cells play DOOM on a CL1 [video]

#30

Post by ryeights »

blizdiddy wrote: post #15
virgildotcodes wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% We know that neurons can produce subjective experience. This is the first time in my life that I've felt a scientific avenue of research should shut down.

Animal testing, weapons testing, medical trials, cloning, psychological experiments… had you just never considered them before? Why this?

Those things all exist within our conscious realm. “Human brain cells in a vat used for computation” suggests horrors beyond understanding
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