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Uploading Pirated Books via BitTorrent Qualifies as Fair Use, Meta Argues

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Re: Uploading Pirated Books via BitTorrent Qualifies as Fair Use, Meta Argues

#261

Post by heavyset_go »

Aerroon wrote: post #239
cmiles74 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like a bad bet to me. It looks like authors are going to lose this case setting the precedent that you not only don’t need to license training data, obtaining it illegally (for free) is totally okay.

Didn't Anthropic's case already set the precedent that training itself is fine? It's not like copyrighted novels are a large portion of human-generated text data. It's just the stuff that's easier to get because it's preserved in bulk. Video transcription has more or less been solved. Imagine how much data Google has in YouTube transcripts. And the longer these AI chat bots operate the more data they manage to collec…

IIRC the Anthropic case was non-precendent setting for some reason that I don't remember

Re: Uploading Pirated Books via BitTorrent Qualifies as Fair Use, Meta Argues

#262

Post by maplethorpe »

aduty wrote: post #186
wnevets wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's even more egregious after watching interviews of a young Lars bragging about trading bootleg cassette tapes.

Lars was always a scumbag.

Probably the best drummer there ever was though.

Re: Uploading Pirated Books via BitTorrent Qualifies as Fair Use, Meta Argues

#265

Post by shmeeed »

wfurney wrote: post #173
qingcharles wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Judges often roll this line out, but in criminal court I've seen some defendants get epic deals by going without a lawyer [0] since absolutely nobody in the justice system wants to deal with the guy who has no idea what he's doing and is going to make the most bizarre arguments about being a sovereign citizen. So they give them a really low offer and get them on their way as quickly as possible. [0] I don't like to s…

Interesting point that I haven't thought about before, thanks for sharing.

I find it interesting as well. I'm also 100% sure it's absolutely terrible legal advice.

Re: Uploading Pirated Books via BitTorrent Qualifies as Fair Use, Meta Argues

#266

Post by AnthonyMouse »

fc417fc802 wrote: post #224
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> NOTE: it is per "work infringed", not per infringement. The number of infringements will be one of the factors the court will consider when deciding where in that $750-30000 range to go. But that's the whole problem, isn't it? Consider how a P2P network operates. There are N users with a copy of the song. From this we know that there have been at most N uploads, for N users, so the average user has uploaded 1 copy.…

> The total actual damages are then $750, but the law would allow them to recover a minimum of $750 from each of them Because they're statutory damages, because the actual point of the exercise is to make an example of the person breaking the law. Obviously in scenarios where it's feasible to reliably prosecute a significant fraction of offenders then making an example of people isn't justifiable.

> Because they're statutory damages, because the actual point of the exercise is to make an example of the person breaking the law.

That's quite inaccurate. Punitive damages are typically treble damages, i.e. three times the actual amount, not 750 to 150,000 times the actual amount.

The actual point of statutory damages is that proving actual damages is hard, and then if you caught someone with a pirate printing press it's somewhat reasonable to guestimate they were personally making hundreds to thousands of copies. The problem is they then applied that to P2P networks and people who were on average making a single copy.

Re: Uploading Pirated Books via BitTorrent Qualifies as Fair Use, Meta Argues

#267

Post by AnthonyMouse »

fc417fc802 wrote: post #217
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> maybe the judge will even try to be extra nice when he explains why the argument doesn't hold water. The thing everybody ignores about this is context. Suppose you upload a copy of a work to someone else over the internet for . Is it fair use? That has to depend on the reason, doesn't it? Aren't there going to be some reasons for which the answer is yes? The "problem" here is that the reason typically belongs to th…

> It seems like the only reason people want to argue that it's the uploader Well there's also the issue of enablement. If you're overly enthusiastic to turn a blind eye to illegal conduct you end up being labeled an accomplice. But of course that would seem to apply to Facebook here in equal measure.

> Well there's also the issue of enablement. If you're overly enthusiastic to turn a blind eye to illegal conduct you end up being labeled an accomplice.

That's something the industry made up out of whole cloth. If someone sells ski masks that can be used for both keeping the wind off your face when you're skiing and hiding your face when you're committing burglary and has no means to know what any given person intends to do with it, are you really proposing to charge the department store as an accomplice?

The way that would ordinarily work is that you could charge them if they were e.g. advertising their masks as useful for burglary. But now where are we with someone who doesn't do that?

Re: Uploading Pirated Books via BitTorrent Qualifies as Fair Use, Meta Argues

#268

Post by walletdrainer »

larodi wrote: post #250
DaSHacka wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did they not? Seems like they're still quite popular, and I knew people in HS (for reference, late 2010s to early '20s) that were big into the band. Additionally, looking at Google Trends[0], it seems they peaked in 21st-century online popularity in 2008 and had another notable uptick in 2017. I think a lot of us want the assholes to have suffered real consequences for their behavior, but want is different from did .…

Yeah, people with botox pumped lips, pink tops, and sporty fancy wear. Basically the cream of the commercial listener who understands exactly zero of the musical substance, but is there, because ads were aired on TikTok. Faith is not without a sense of humor. Btw, perhaps you may not know that there's this crossover looks now - a mix of black-metal and hiphop hoodies, and all the KPop adopted this writing for their p…

>people with botox pumped lips

Please don’t use Botox for lip fillers, you will almost certainly die or wish you had.

Re: Uploading Pirated Books via BitTorrent Qualifies as Fair Use, Meta Argues

#269

Post by otterley »

tliltocatl wrote: post #234
otterley wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume you do not write software to earn a living?

I do. And I get paid because I write it fulfill to the customer's need that's not covered by an existing solution, not because some law prevents using what already exists.

And if that was stolen by someone else to give to other customers for free, how might that impact you?

Re: Uploading Pirated Books via BitTorrent Qualifies as Fair Use, Meta Argues

#270

Post by tliltocatl »

otterley wrote: post #269
tliltocatl wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do. And I get paid because I write it fulfill to the customer's need that's not covered by an existing solution, not because some law prevents using what already exists.

And if that was stolen by someone else to give to other customers for free, how might that impact you?

It wouldn't impact me at all. Without our hardware it is useless. And customers need certifications, support and availability guarantees. Customers aren't paying shit for code. They don't need code. They need solution to their problems. Of which my code is a very small (if critical) part of.

And yes, that's totally irrelevant. Because the mere fact that some people depend on some evil for their living doesn't justify its existence.

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