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Why can't you tune your guitar? (2019)

ethanhein.com

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Re: Why can't you tune your guitar? (2019)

#21

Post by wilsonnb3 »

amelius wrote: post #9

> If thirds and fifths are so out of tune in 12-TET, why do we use it? The advantage is that all the thirds and fifths in all the keys are out of tune by the same amount. None of them sound perfect, but none of them sound terrible, either. Can't we have a system that is optimized for the notes that are actually played in a song rather than the hypothetical set? And what if the optimization is done per small group of…

I highly recommend the book “How Equal Temperament Ruined Harmony (and Why You Should Care)” if you are interested in this subject.

Re: Why can't you tune your guitar? (2019)

#22

Post by wallstprog »

chpatrick wrote: post #17
amelius wrote: post #9

> If thirds and fifths are so out of tune in 12-TET, why do we use it? The advantage is that all the thirds and fifths in all the keys are out of tune by the same amount. None of them sound perfect, but none of them sound terrible, either. Can't we have a system that is optimized for the notes that are actually played in a song rather than the hypothetical set? And what if the optimization is done per small group of…

That's how it works when you sing! But if you have an instrument you need to tune it would be annoying if you had to retune it between every song.

Or in the middle of a song -- lots of songs modulate between different keys.

Re: Why can't you tune your guitar? (2019)

#23

Post by yesb »

cpursley wrote: post #15

Fixed it: “Why can’t you tune your poorly made guitar?” The most guitars today are still made in the style of the 1950s Gibsons and Fenders, including the neck and tuner layout. Most guitar buyers focus on the aesthetic and not the quality. I switched to a headless guitar where the tuners are at the bridge and it has a fanned fretboard giving the strings more natural tensions, the thing stays in tune and is intonated…

This article is relevant to a theoretic perfectly designed and built guitar.

Re: Why can't you tune your guitar? (2019)

#24

Post by rondini »

cpursley wrote: post #15

Fixed it: “Why can’t you tune your poorly made guitar?” The most guitars today are still made in the style of the 1950s Gibsons and Fenders, including the neck and tuner layout. Most guitar buyers focus on the aesthetic and not the quality. I switched to a headless guitar where the tuners are at the bridge and it has a fanned fretboard giving the strings more natural tensions, the thing stays in tune and is intonated…

You’re assuming that the goal for a guitar player is to have perfectly optimal instrument when in reality many players want an instrument that feels and sounds like the artists that inspire them. Aesthetics is part of that but if they enjoy the sound of the instrument then who’s to say that another one is “better”?

Re: Why can't you tune your guitar? (2019)

#25

Post by penr0se »

amelius wrote: post #9

> If thirds and fifths are so out of tune in 12-TET, why do we use it? The advantage is that all the thirds and fifths in all the keys are out of tune by the same amount. None of them sound perfect, but none of them sound terrible, either. Can't we have a system that is optimized for the notes that are actually played in a song rather than the hypothetical set? And what if the optimization is done per small group of…

The higher the variety of notes (out of the overall 12 sounds in an octave) in the song, the less this becomes possible.

If your song is really simple, e.g. only consists of the 3 notes that make up a major triad (root, third, fifth), then this is definitely possible and you can just use natural thirds and natural fifths.

But as you start adding more notes, more chords and perhaps change of keys etc, it starts to break down.

That's the reason why J. S. Bach wrote The Well-Tempered Clavier. It's a collection of 24 preludes and fugues, in each possible major and minor key.

The basic idea was that if every prelude and fugue sounded good on an instrument (organ, harpsichord etc.), than it meant that the instrument was "well-tempered".

Using natural tuning instead of 12-TET would have resulted in some pieces sounding very good and other sounding very bad.

Re: Why can't you tune your guitar? (2019)

#26

Post by sillysaurusx »

a4isms wrote: post #11
xandrius wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate? Just to make your comment less of a useless knee-jerk reaction but rather a discussion started for someone else.

Generous of you to assume that someone who walks in, sees something somebody else has written and immediately calls it shit... Has something of value to say. If they did, why did they hold it back just to speak so contemptuously of a subject that is actually interesting and reasonably well explained?

Technically they called it testicles, not shit, but your point stands.

Generosity is worth having by default, though. Filter people out when they burn it explicitly.

Re: Why can't you tune your guitar? (2019)

#27

Post by coherentpony »

amelius wrote: post #9

> If thirds and fifths are so out of tune in 12-TET, why do we use it? The advantage is that all the thirds and fifths in all the keys are out of tune by the same amount. None of them sound perfect, but none of them sound terrible, either. Can't we have a system that is optimized for the notes that are actually played in a song rather than the hypothetical set? And what if the optimization is done per small group of…

It doesn’t work per-song. Songs have multiple chords, some even with alterations. If you tune an E so that it is perfectly a major third above C, then that E won’t be a perfect fifth above an A note. The Am chord has the notes A, C and E, so Am has notes that all belong to C major.

Additionally, some songs even change keys, which makes “per-song” not enough of a constraint.

Re: Why can't you tune your guitar? (2019)

#28

Post by post-it »

> If you watch slow-motion video of a guitar string vibrating, you’ll see a complex, evolving blend of squiggles. These squiggles are the mathematical sum of all of the string’s different harmonics.

This is incorrect. If you watch a video like [0], the squiggles aren't real, they're an artifact of a rolling shutter camera. A real slowmo camera will correctly show the entire string vibrating[1].

The rest of the article is correct, but you can't see harmonics happening to the string.

[0] https://youtu.be/XOCGb5ZGEV8 [1] https://youtu.be/6sgI7S_G-XI

Re: Why can't you tune your guitar? (2019)

#29

Post by post-it »

cpursley wrote: post #15

Fixed it: “Why can’t you tune your poorly made guitar?” The most guitars today are still made in the style of the 1950s Gibsons and Fenders, including the neck and tuner layout. Most guitar buyers focus on the aesthetic and not the quality. I switched to a headless guitar where the tuners are at the bridge and it has a fanned fretboard giving the strings more natural tensions, the thing stays in tune and is intonated…

Weird to describe 99%+ of all guitars, including some of the best made guitars in the world, as "poorly made."

Re: Why can't you tune your guitar? (2019)

#30

Post by bronlund »

a4isms wrote: post #11
xandrius wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate? Just to make your comment less of a useless knee-jerk reaction but rather a discussion started for someone else.

Generous of you to assume that someone who walks in, sees something somebody else has written and immediately calls it shit... Has something of value to say. If they did, why did they hold it back just to speak so contemptuously of a subject that is actually interesting and reasonably well explained?

I think I see where he is coming from. Using math to prove that you can’t tune stuff, will to some, sound like using a laser leveling tool to prove that you can’t make a perfect pizza.
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