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2013 Automobile of the Year: Tesla Model S

automobilemag.com

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Re: 2013 Automobile of the Year: Tesla Model S

#91

Post by jblow »

cletus wrote: post #79

The Tesla Model S is a great-looking car but, unlike some, I still don't see electric cars as being the future. Batteries are still too heavy, take too long to charge, are too expensive and require materials that in widespread use will probably become far more of a problem than fossil fuels in terms of scarcity. Of course, there can be and no doubt will be technological innovation in this space but (IMHO) the future…

Those of us who own electric cars know that electric cars have already won. They are just too good compared to regular somewhat-junky gasoline cars. The benefits are too numerous to list.

The only problem that I have with my Roadster is that if I want to take a long road trip, there has to be a big stopover in the middle, which makes trips much longer. The Model S solves that. Therefore, EVs have won. They are here now, they are real, and they work. All that needs to happen is for the cost to come down, but there is nothing preventing that.

If you have parking at home, an EV is way better than gas or hydrogen because you never need to take your car somewhere to fuel it, ever (unless on a very long road trip). You just come home, park, and plug it in. It is hard to communicate how good this feels until you've had an EV for a few weeks and you're driving past all these gas stations and kind of laughing because you don't need them.

Re: 2013 Automobile of the Year: Tesla Model S

#92

Post by jblow »

cletus wrote: post #79

The Tesla Model S is a great-looking car but, unlike some, I still don't see electric cars as being the future. Batteries are still too heavy, take too long to charge, are too expensive and require materials that in widespread use will probably become far more of a problem than fossil fuels in terms of scarcity. Of course, there can be and no doubt will be technological innovation in this space but (IMHO) the future…

... and on the battery chemistry issue, Teslas use Lithium-Ion batteries, just like we have been using in laptops for forever. They are not exotic.

Re: 2013 Automobile of the Year: Tesla Model S

#93

Post by joezydeco »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #9
warrenmiller wrote: post #8

does anyone else think that screen is a bit too much?

I thought so, but when I got to see one 'in action' its a lot less of an issue. In terms of surface area the intrument panel on most cars is about equivalent, its just shaped into a long dashboardy kind of thing. I worry about glass shards in a side collision though.

It looks a lot nicer and less ambitious than the prototype that they showed at CES earlier this year.

http://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/crop/200903/tesla-model-s--...

Re: 2013 Automobile of the Year: Tesla Model S

#94

Post by chc »

jblow wrote: post #91
cletus wrote: post #79

The Tesla Model S is a great-looking car but, unlike some, I still don't see electric cars as being the future. Batteries are still too heavy, take too long to charge, are too expensive and require materials that in widespread use will probably become far more of a problem than fossil fuels in terms of scarcity. Of course, there can be and no doubt will be technological innovation in this space but (IMHO) the future…

Those of us who own electric cars know that electric cars have already won. They are just too good compared to regular somewhat-junky gasoline cars. The benefits are too numerous to list. The only problem that I have with my Roadster is that if I want to take a long road trip, there has to be a big stopover in the middle, which makes trips much longer. The Model S solves that. Therefore, EVs have won. They are here n…

Aren't EVs totally unusable if you live in an apartment? That was my impression when I looked into them. Like, how would I charge a car in my parking stall?

Re: 2013 Automobile of the Year: Tesla Model S

#95

Post by cobrausn »

cletus wrote: post #79

The Tesla Model S is a great-looking car but, unlike some, I still don't see electric cars as being the future. Batteries are still too heavy, take too long to charge, are too expensive and require materials that in widespread use will probably become far more of a problem than fossil fuels in terms of scarcity. Of course, there can be and no doubt will be technological innovation in this space but (IMHO) the future…

I would disagree. I think the personal commuter vehicle will move to an electric power system if Tesla (or their competition) manages to scale down price and ramp up production. I think heavy work and utility vehicles, however, will remain fuel powered.

I, for one, am happy that we finally have a choice other than gasoline or diesel. Given enough money I'd love for my family to have both an electric and gasoline (or diesel) vehicle.

Re: 2013 Automobile of the Year: Tesla Model S

#96

Post by bryanlarsen »

jules wrote: post #77
CamperBob2 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an electric car owner, I haven't found a need for swapping batteries. Consider this: if a refueling station offered battery swapping they would also need to exhaustively test your batteries to determine that they were not abused and to determine how much credit to offer for their current capacity. How does that save much time from just using a quick-charge station? Because the batteries wouldn't have to be tested…

Unless we invent new battery technology, that prediction won't come true. There is simply not enough easily obtainable lithium in the world for the batteries. Lithium production in 2011 was 34 kilotonnes. For 50 million cars you already need ~2500 kilotonnes. So unless we can somehow increase production 70x while keeping prices low, we're going to need something else. Not to mention that at that with the total lithiu…

quoting from Wikipedia:

According to a 2011 study conducted at Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory and the University of California Berkeley, the currently estimated reserve base of lithium should not be a limiting factor for large-scale battery production for electric vehicles, as the study estimated that on the order of 1 billion 40 kWh Li-based batteries could be built with current reserves.[71] Another 2011 study by researchers from the University of Michigan and Ford Motor Company found that there are sufficient lithium resources to support global demand until 2100, including the lithium required for the potential widespread use of hybrid electric, plug-in hybrid electric and battery electric vehicles. The study estimated global lithium reserves at 39 million tons, and total demand for lithium during the 90-year period analyzed at 12–20 million tons, depending on the scenarios regarding economic growth and recycling rates.[72]

[71]: http://www.greencarcongress.com/2011/06/albertus-20110617.ht...

[72]: http://www.greencarcongress.com/2011/08/lithium-20110803.htm...

Re: 2013 Automobile of the Year: Tesla Model S

#97

Post by sry_not4sale »

cletus wrote: post #79

The Tesla Model S is a great-looking car but, unlike some, I still don't see electric cars as being the future. Batteries are still too heavy, take too long to charge, are too expensive and require materials that in widespread use will probably become far more of a problem than fossil fuels in terms of scarcity. Of course, there can be and no doubt will be technological innovation in this space but (IMHO) the future…

IMHO electric cars will survive batteries and move toward other storage mechanisms e.g. supercapacitors

Re: 2013 Automobile of the Year: Tesla Model S

#98

Post by [deleted] »

kerryfalk wrote: post #78
bryanlarsen wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The M5 may beat the Tesla at 0-60 on paper (3.7 seconds vs 3.9), but in practice the Tesla will beat the M5. A 0-60 is measured from the time the car starts to move. If you measure from when the accelerator is depressed, the Tesla gains a huge advantage and will beat the M5. EDIT: Here's a 0-100 video: http://ca.autoblog.com/2012/10/09/sport-sedan-shootout-tesla... Now unless there's some tricks in the video, it's qu…

This is very strange and foreign reasoning to me. I competitively raced cars in an amateur series. You are claiming that the Tesla's superior throttle response makes it faster 0-60. The car needs to move the weight, so measuring it from when it starts moving to when it hits the desired speed seems like a perfectly reasonable metric. Throttle response needs to be measured separately. The M5 comparison is more than eno…

[deleted]

Re: 2013 Automobile of the Year: Tesla Model S

#99

Post by jellicle »

chc wrote: post #94
jblow wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those of us who own electric cars know that electric cars have already won. They are just too good compared to regular somewhat-junky gasoline cars. The benefits are too numerous to list. The only problem that I have with my Roadster is that if I want to take a long road trip, there has to be a big stopover in the middle, which makes trips much longer. The Model S solves that. Therefore, EVs have won. They are here n…

Aren't EVs totally unusable if you live in an apartment? That was my impression when I looked into them. Like, how would I charge a car in my parking stall?

You are correct it is difficult. There is a strong push on now for new underground parking to be constructed with 240V electrical service roughed in to many of the spaces, to accommodate future charging stations.

Re: 2013 Automobile of the Year: Tesla Model S

#100

Post by bryanlarsen »

kerryfalk wrote: post #78
bryanlarsen wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The M5 may beat the Tesla at 0-60 on paper (3.7 seconds vs 3.9), but in practice the Tesla will beat the M5. A 0-60 is measured from the time the car starts to move. If you measure from when the accelerator is depressed, the Tesla gains a huge advantage and will beat the M5. EDIT: Here's a 0-100 video: http://ca.autoblog.com/2012/10/09/sport-sedan-shootout-tesla... Now unless there's some tricks in the video, it's qu…

This is very strange and foreign reasoning to me. I competitively raced cars in an amateur series. You are claiming that the Tesla's superior throttle response makes it faster 0-60. The car needs to move the weight, so measuring it from when it starts moving to when it hits the desired speed seems like a perfectly reasonable metric. Throttle response needs to be measured separately. The M5 comparison is more than eno…

It's not throttle response, it's torque at 0RPM.

When you're racing, you rev your engine before the light turns green and pop the clutch when it turns green.

You don't do that when you're not racing, because it's hard on clutches, and the vast majority of daily drivers are automatics.

When you're racing an electric car, you mash the accelerator when the light turns green, the same way you start the car moving when you're normally driving. So you get race-track start feeling every time you drive your car.

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