Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Uber Reverts Back to Surge Pricing in New York After One Day

betabeat.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 72 posts

Re: Uber Reverts Back to Surge Pricing in New York After One Day

#41

Post by 001sky »

tptacek wrote: post #34
001sky wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, Not really. What's strictly incorrect are naive assumptions that the standard behavioural assumptions of "economics" hold in a disaster. The basics: truth telling, promise keeping, etc. The purpose of anti-gouging laws is a rational anticipation of Opportunism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunism Opportunism is not dealt with by economics (assumed != existent), except obliquely. It is the providence of polit…

There are lines miles long for gas. People do hoard in disasters. Gas in NY metro simply is more valuable now; for instance, as a substitute for the electric grid. Your reply is nonresponsive.

Gas in NY metro simply is more valuable now

The amount you are willing to bid on something under duress is not the way to construct a proper-functiong market. Its important to seperate the short-term from the long-term, in this regards. In certain cases, its rational to obviate the market, into hierachy. see, for example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hold-up_problem . This is precisely why firms are distinct from N-dimensional outsourcing arrangements, even under free-market capitalism, under ideal conditions.

So you can attack the problem from perfect conditions or imperfect ones. You may or may not like anti-gouging laws, but an plain vanilla analyis using under-graduate economics is naive to several critical factors.

Re: Uber Reverts Back to Surge Pricing in New York After One Day

#42

Post by gwright »

ynniv wrote: post #25
jbooth wrote: post #3

Here's my question, gas stations are closing here in NJ when running out of gas. Why aren't they jacking up the price to astronomical rates? There are lines for miles to the gas stations that have electricity. Is this a failure of capitalism in the face of human compassion or what?

Strict capitalism is heartless, and ruins society. If the only way to share is through dollars, the majority of the burden is placed on the poor. We pretend that capitalism is foundational because it is an easy way to control the vast complexity of resource sharing, but it isn't sufficient for a healthy civilization. Strict capitalism is a third world country, with all security and resources devoted to those with per…

Could you define this 'strict capitalism' that you think 'ruins society'?

There is a lot of evidence that other economic systems do ruin societies (communism, socialism, command economies, crony capitalism, etc) but generally capitalism is credited with being the most successful system for producing wealth and lifting people out of poverty.

Re: Uber Reverts Back to Surge Pricing in New York After One Day

#43

Post by ynniv »

gwright wrote: post #42
ynniv wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strict capitalism is heartless, and ruins society. If the only way to share is through dollars, the majority of the burden is placed on the poor. We pretend that capitalism is foundational because it is an easy way to control the vast complexity of resource sharing, but it isn't sufficient for a healthy civilization. Strict capitalism is a third world country, with all security and resources devoted to those with per…

Could you define this 'strict capitalism' that you think 'ruins society'? There is a lot of evidence that other economic systems do ruin societies (communism, socialism, command economies, crony capitalism, etc) but generally capitalism is credited with being the most successful system for producing wealth and lifting people out of poverty.

The emphasis is on "strict", not on "capitalism".

Re: Uber Reverts Back to Surge Pricing in New York After One Day

#44

Post by grayc »

rayiner wrote: post #38

While we're on the subject... Isn't it amazing what kind of rapid and effective response you get when the people in trouble are among the richest in the country (NYC/NJ coast) versus the poorest in the country (New Orleans)? I'm not complaining. I'm back in my Manhattan office two days after a truly epic disaster. I rode the train into work this morning, along the coast of Long Island Sound no less. It took ~10 minut…

Without getting into politics (too much)... there are a lot of reasons for different responses between this hurricane and Katrina. Parts of New Orleans being below sea level probably matters a lot. Plus, FEMA was pretty clearly mismanaged then and doesn't seem to be now. I think those two factors probably account for more of the variation than the wealth of the inhabitants does, and I'm sure that I'm unaware of other important differences.

edit: "sea level" should read "water level"

Re: Uber Reverts Back to Surge Pricing in New York After One Day

#45

Post by gwright »

codewright wrote: post #12
endtime wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Christie plans on going on the warpath Can you elaborate? Does he want to remove the anti-"gouging" laws?

>Can you elaborate? Does he want to remove the anti-"gouging" laws? Quite the opposite, he's a somewhat populist moderate Republican. He plans to prosecute people guilty of increasing their prices more than 10% during the crisis to full extent of the law.

This is perhaps good politics, but it is stupid economics.

Restricting price changes during a crisis (or any time really) is a fantastic way to create shortages, delay the arrival of needed or substitute resources, encourage hording, and so on.

Re: Uber Reverts Back to Surge Pricing in New York After One Day

#46

Post by gwright »

ynniv wrote: post #43
gwright wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you define this 'strict capitalism' that you think 'ruins society'? There is a lot of evidence that other economic systems do ruin societies (communism, socialism, command economies, crony capitalism, etc) but generally capitalism is credited with being the most successful system for producing wealth and lifting people out of poverty.

The emphasis is on "strict", not on "capitalism".

Yes, that is why I asked you define what you meant by 'strict'. What characteristic are you trying to identify with that term?

Re: Uber Reverts Back to Surge Pricing in New York After One Day

#47

Post by mchanson »

brilee wrote: post #11

... if prices don't go up, what's the incentive for gasoline delivery companies to make the extra effort to bring resources to a disaster-torn city?

It seems to me that humans, as a group, act compassionately during crisis. So compassion, or good marketing if you are a cold blooded corp. type, is a good reason to truck more in. FEMA can also, I'm sure, force a commercial concern to do it. They have lots of that scary tinfoil hat power.

Many comments in here seem to look at this problem so coldly and rationally. Anti-gouging has a deep moral component. If some of us are not trying to get one over on others of us then you can maintain a stronger community during a crisis.

If Bob's gas starts charging $15 for a gallon of gas in a crisis it will cause friction in the community between those who can afford vs. those you cannot and with the employees and owner of the gauging station.

We have also, well enough of us that laws were passed, decided as a society that its just immoral/unacceptable behavior.

Capitalism is great. It doesn't need to deal with this corner condition well to be a successful system.

Re: Uber Reverts Back to Surge Pricing in New York After One Day

#48

Post by aidenn0 »

magikbum wrote: post #21

This is all moot any ways. Town cars are allowed to pick up any passengers during the crisis. Effectively unleashing a whole lot more supply. As well town cars and yellow cabs are now allowed to pick up multiple passengers going to different locations while continuing to run the first passengers meter. I don't agree with this policy at all. You try getting an Uber car on a Saturday night it's not "surge pricing" when…

I don't see how the current situation can be called "disgusting" since Uber isn't making any money off of the current situation. (I'm assuming that you mean it's disgusting that they are using an emergency to make lots of money)

Re: Uber Reverts Back to Surge Pricing in New York After One Day

#50

Post by ynniv »

gwright wrote: post #46
ynniv wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The emphasis is on "strict", not on "capitalism".

Yes, that is why I asked you define what you meant by 'strict'. What characteristic are you trying to identify with that term?

The parent wondered why the price of gasoline was not currently astronomically high to reduce demand to meet supply. My response is that this means of sharing a limited resource disproportionally burdens those less wealthy. Over the long term it is reasonable to say that a resource has a high price.

In the short term, strict capitalism would say that a wealthy businessman makes better use of that tank of gasoline than someone who is desperately hoping to transport their family out of a flooded house to stay with relatives in another city. That social burden created by the loss the family man endures doesn't carry a dollar amount, so a system based strictly on capitalism can't recognize that it has become poorer than if the resource had been shared in some other fashion.

Post reply on HN