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Why you should take your 20's seriously

jasonevanish.com

41–50 of 174 posts

Re: Why you should take your 20's seriously

#41

Most startup advice is also good advice for 20-somethings. Get to an MVP quickly: Find a way to practice your target profession as soon as possible. (Don't spend hundreds of thousands getting a law degree just to discover you hate the actual work.) This is easy for programmers: just start building stuff before applying to the CS program. After MVP, iterate quickly: So you know Ruby? Time to learn another language, or…

The best paying job a 20 year old can get might be in construction or the military, but this may limit your upside down the road.

From a purely financial perspective, money now is better than money later though. A 20 year old who secures a job that nets him enough to save $15,000 per year until retirement will ultimately have a lifetime net savings of about the same as someone who finally finds a job that pays enough to save $50,000 per year at the age of 40.

Re: Why you should take your 20's seriously

#42
post #19

This is a delicate subject because one can view it as a call for those in their 20s to make the most of that time, which is a fine message, to something tantamount to ageism. While it's true that those in their 30s or older can be closed to new idea, that's not because they're "old", it's because they're people and some people are closed-minded. I find a lot of these complaints are more about the cultural and lifesty…

Yes, it's blatant ageism. As much as we hate to admit it, our minds and bodies start to decline almost as soon as we reach maturity. Not only does raw intelligence drop as we age, but some personality traits change. Of the Big Five, openness to new experiences takes the biggest hit. See http://www.gwern.net/DNB%20FAQ#aging and http://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/www/external/labor/agin... for the scientific evidence.

Obviously these stats don't mean that old people are stupid and close-minded. Knowledge accumulates and helps offset many of the deficiencies. Still, this evidence does suggest that young people might want to change their behavior to benefit their future selves. This doesn't just mean making the most of the time you have. Exercise, continuous learning, and a few drugs can help to slow the decline. As an analogy, think of athletes. A 50 year-old is never going to win the Boston marathon. But with proper training, nutrition, and maybe a few performance-enhancing drugs, they can beat 95% of 25 year-olds.

Re: Why you should take your 20's seriously

#43
post #27

I've spent a considerable amount of time thinking about this, ever since the topic came up on reddit about why so few people in their 20's seem to "have their shit together." I think it comes down to two reasons. The first one is huge, but its essentially luck. I think the reason I'm even afforded the opportunity to take my 20's seriously is almost completely happenstantial. Looking at my friends and (distant) family…

I think because 20-somethings with ambitions tend to move and live in career centers. Come to SF or NYC and you'll find a lot of ambitious 20-somethings that care about their career. I know of mid-twenties women who've dumped their long term boyfriends because the boyfriends were unambitious and didn't want to get anywhere in their life other than dead end retail jobs. If you wanted to move to such a career center, I…

On that point, I've been chided by my partner for having a crappy job in the Bay Area--one which offered plentiful opportunities for career progression, paid in the top quintile of one of the highest paying areas in one of the highest paying countries in the world, and which didn't have hours that were too ridiculous. That's the real danger of moving to a career-center like SF or NYC: the people who end up here score very highly on the getting their shit together in their 20s scale.

Thing is: she was right. Even though I was excelling at number 1) on the original post's three points, I wasn't super happy. And so I've moved from that to what I worry he might consider just dicking around. But it's absolutely 100% for the best.

Re: Why you should take your 20's seriously

#44
Good luck trying to tell other people how they should live their lives.

I can tell you that there are probably a hundred things I could've done better with my time in my twenties. However there was no way that I would have known then what I would be like today and what makes me happy now. Back then I thought I would keep gigging in bands and I'd scrape together a record label and have a long career in music. That's what made me happy at the time and what I sought out to do. How could I have known that I would change? I have a wife now and a daughter on the way, I've become a mild-mannered programmer who enjoys mathematics and literature, and rather than getting pissed on a Friday night and making a lot of noise I like to hang out with my friends and play board games. But if I was wiser I might have went to university and worked on getting a PhD then I'd probably be better off now, today. Hindsight...

What I'm saying is that humans are terrible planners. We're good at adapting and adjusting but we can never seem to be able to accurately predict outcomes. I think that we glorify those people who seem to far surpass the status quo and bend their stories into myth. It's romantic to think that Einstein or Steve Jobs had set out to change the world when they were young but if we're honest about their history it's more likely that they drifted towards those things and all the right pieces were in place at the right time to make great things happen.

And it doesn't end when you hit thirty. I'm still as ambitious as ever and I see new currents that I'd like to follow that I would never have thought possible before. You don't just become a dumb, boring, cantankerous old person over night. Quite the contrary; I find that my tastes are far more refined, I can see dead-ends before going down the path, and I am more adverse to wasting my time. You start to see patterns in the ocean and can navigate the seas with ease.

So plan all you want but be prepared to fight the current and the winds!

Re: Why you should take your 20's seriously

#45

I "agree", but draw the exact opposite conclusions. You should take your 20's seriously... because it's the only time in your life that you aren't encumbered by building a career, having kids, etc. So you should take your 20's to do the things that you won't be able to do later. Work as a bartender, play in a band, travel the world on the cheap, teach English abroad, date the kind of people you wouldn't marry. You do…

> "Your brain finishes forming in your 20′s". If that's even true (although I doubt it)

It is true.

Re: Why you should take your 20's seriously

#46
post #19

This is a delicate subject because one can view it as a call for those in their 20s to make the most of that time, which is a fine message, to something tantamount to ageism. While it's true that those in their 30s or older can be closed to new idea, that's not because they're "old", it's because they're people and some people are closed-minded. I find a lot of these complaints are more about the cultural and lifesty…

Yes, it's blatant ageism. As much as we hate to admit it, our minds and bodies start to decline almost as soon as we reach maturity. Not only does raw intelligence drop as we age, but some personality traits change. Of the Big Five, openness to new experiences takes the biggest hit. See http://www.gwern.net/DNB%20FAQ#aging and http://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/www/external/labor/agin... for the scientific evidence…

Being open to new experiences, in my opinion, is much more a matter of the people you surround yourself with, than with physiology. Sure, your brain may change a little bit in your 20s and not so much in your 30s, but if you have the right friends, perhaps some younger friends, they will drag you into new things.

I have felt that palpably running my own company for the last 5 years. In the first few years, it was just my wife and I doing everything, writing the code and running the business. As we started to make enough money that we could hire people, I started to notice how set in our ways we became.

Since we had started writing iPhone apps near the beginning of the mobile revolution, our code was written to suit older devices. In places, we did things for performance reasons so our apps would work well on old phones. Also, we never adopted ARC, because that's just not how we did it. But as we started to hire people, our engineers pushed us to change our old ways, and as a result, our code became much better.

So, I say - don't fear the reaper. Just find some young friends (or employees). I turned 30 this year, so I have a few gray hairs, but working with people in their 20s really has changed my ideas on the right way to do things, and given me perspective on my own life.

Re: Why you should take your 20's seriously

#47
post #37
post #19

This is a delicate subject because one can view it as a call for those in their 20s to make the most of that time, which is a fine message, to something tantamount to ageism. While it's true that those in their 30s or older can be closed to new idea, that's not because they're "old", it's because they're people and some people are closed-minded. I find a lot of these complaints are more about the cultural and lifesty…

I completely agree with what cletus says. I'm 43 years old today. Some things just feel uninteresting because I started doing them too young. Interestingly programming is not one of them, I have been doing it for 30 years. On the other hand, I have been rock climbing for 7 years and I'm better than ever [in case you care: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olEgfe4cYuU ]. It still feels pretty new to me. I know 25-year-ol…

Are programming/rock climbing overlapping interests everywhere or more so in the Bay Area? The problem solving aspect of climbing (particularly bouldering) always appealed to me, and I always see programmers at the climbing gym. But it seems like a disproportionately high number of programmer friends (compared to other friends) climb in SF.

Re: Why you should take your 20's seriously

#48
"2) Statistically, women need to have all their children by 35.

According to the author, a woman’s ability to get pregnant plummets starting in her mid-thirties. To make matters worse, the odds of a miscarriage for a woman over 35 is one in four."

Our family doctor gave the odds as 3 in 5.

In practical experience, I know of four friends who have miscarried at 35 (after being pregnant for over 3 months), out of about 11 who had kids at that age.

My wife and I have always suspected that the 3 out of 5 statistic also includes miscarriages in the first two months of pregnancy where you might not have been sure you were pregnant or late.

Re: Why you should take your 20's seriously

#49
This is rather straw-man-ish. He equates having a fun, care-free life as ... working at Starbucks.

I don't know anyone who's ever said, "Well, why don't you just work at Starbucks for a decade? It'll be fun and you can get a real job when you're 30!"

What's actually said is more like, "Take a few months and a backpack and go travel somewhere" or "start a company with no idea if it'll pan out". Party. Start a band. Chase some girls [or guys]. Read a lot.

It doesn't mean "throw away a decade" -- it means "do the important things that it'll be harder for you to get away with if 10 years from now you have a family and mortgage."

I visited over 30 countries in my 20s. Even if that would have kept me from advancing my career (it didn't), I wouldn't trade that for being a year closer to a promotion in an IT job.

Re: Why you should take your 20's seriously

#50
post #19

This is a delicate subject because one can view it as a call for those in their 20s to make the most of that time, which is a fine message, to something tantamount to ageism. While it's true that those in their 30s or older can be closed to new idea, that's not because they're "old", it's because they're people and some people are closed-minded. I find a lot of these complaints are more about the cultural and lifesty…

While it's true that those in their 30s or older can be closed to new idea, that's not because they're "old", it's because they're people and some people are closed-minded.

I feel social pressure plays a big part. Even the so-called open-minded 20 year olds will make fun of people in their 30s and 40s who still try to live an "unsettled" lifestyle. To accept wild and crazy ideas in your 20s just means you still have some growing up to do. To do the same later in life shows an abandonment of your responsibilities, which is frowned upon by society – in North America, at least.

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