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Put the zip code first

zipcodefirst.com

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Re: Put the zip code first

#191

Post by fn-mote »

twodave wrote: post #186
bombcar wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A ZIP+4 does not encode all information. Proof: a post office has its own zip code, for PO Boxes. The +4 is the last four digits of the post office box. If the Post Office has more than 10,000 boxes, the +4 will be duplicated.

Yeah, anyone who has had to work with USPS bar codes should know that internally these are called routing codes, and they come in 5, 9 and even 11 digit variants. The 11-digit one narrows down to a specific delivery point, but even that isn’t enough to derive an address (just enough to know whether you’re looking at the right one or not). Zip+4 codes also change frequently because they aren’t based on locations but o…

> Zip+4 codes also change frequently because they aren’t based on locations but on delivery routes and sequencing.

This was news for me. I know the few zip+4 I memorize never change.

I think the source for the parent is AI slop. See [1].

> Due to an increase in population or to the improve postal operations, the US Postal Service® will occasionally add a new ZIP Code or change ZIP Code boundaries.

The plus four digits encode:

> [67] : Sector or Several Blocks

> [89] : Segment or One Side of a Street

Note that this contradicts the parent.

[1]: https://faq.usps.com/s/article/ZIP-Code-The-Basics

Re: Put the zip code first

#192

Post by vscode-rest »

I wonder if people had a similarly negative reaction when someone first proposed speculative execution in processor pipelines.

“This is is a terrible idea, you’re telling me you will make 99% of cases way faster but completely ignore the 1% that will be slightly slower? Unbelievable.”

If you have SA that most of your customers are in USA, this is a good idea. If not, maybe use your brain a bit and figure out if it can be adapted to something which will work for your customer base.

Re: Put the zip code first

#193

Post by ljsprague »

modeless wrote: post #37

> From those 5 characters you can determine the city, the state, and the country False. Many zip codes include more than one city, and some even cross multiple states. And you can't always tell the difference between codes from different countries. Now you're not just instantly filling the rest of the form, you're implementing fancy multi-country filtering logic, editable drop downs, etc. Given the obvious incompeten…

well_actually.jpg

Re: Put the zip code first

#194

Post by hysan »

IMO, the spirit of the idea is to put higher information density fields first, and let that smooth out the UX for the remaining fields as you go downwards. Yes, there will be exceptions but that only matters if you’re trying to absolve the user of all work for 100% of situations. Trying to do that is a fools errand. Invert the order and use the information gathered to make inputting the rest simpler for 80% of the users. Then make it easy for the other 20% to course correct (ex: don’t disable autofilled fields, highlight all text when tabbing to the next field, etc). I think this pattern is a good one to keep in mind, but not blindly follow, when designing the UX of a UI.

Re: Put the zip code first

#195

Post by twodave »

fn-mote wrote: post #191
twodave wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, anyone who has had to work with USPS bar codes should know that internally these are called routing codes, and they come in 5, 9 and even 11 digit variants. The 11-digit one narrows down to a specific delivery point, but even that isn’t enough to derive an address (just enough to know whether you’re looking at the right one or not). Zip+4 codes also change frequently because they aren’t based on locations but o…

> Zip+4 codes also change frequently because they aren’t based on locations but on delivery routes and sequencing. This was news for me. I know the few zip+4 I memorize never change. I think the source for the parent is AI slop. See [1]. > Due to an increase in population or to the improve postal operations, the US Postal Service® will occasionally add a new ZIP Code or change ZIP Code boundaries. The plus four digit…

The census bureau (very) periodically publishes zip code data (which is where some places get their geolocation info). If you work with enough addresses you’ll find some zip+4s that are wildly far away from where they used to be. There are paid services that have better accuracy, but I’m not sure how they acquire their data.

Re: Put the zip code first

#196

Post by bombcar »

twodave wrote: post #195
fn-mote wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Zip+4 codes also change frequently because they aren’t based on locations but on delivery routes and sequencing. This was news for me. I know the few zip+4 I memorize never change. I think the source for the parent is AI slop. See [1]. > Due to an increase in population or to the improve postal operations, the US Postal Service® will occasionally add a new ZIP Code or change ZIP Code boundaries. The plus four digit…

The census bureau (very) periodically publishes zip code data (which is where some places get their geolocation info). If you work with enough addresses you’ll find some zip+4s that are wildly far away from where they used to be. There are paid services that have better accuracy, but I’m not sure how they acquire their data.

Some people don't realize just how much you can "customize" deliverability with the post office, especially if you're big (like a school or large business) - you can have something that looks like your physical address, but is actually really a maildrop/PO Box at the nearby post office.

You can do relatively complex forwarding that would only appear to the end users if they can decode the barcode.

Re: Put the zip code first

#197

Post by Dylan16807 »

awesome_dude wrote: post #160
fingerlocks wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If asking for the zip first was more common then we quickly learn those four extra digits because the auto fill benefits would be immediately obvious

Why? I have a 4 digit postcode, I have to look it up every time I have to fill in an address form for delivery. I've had people screw 1 digit up in that postcode and their items (a laptop in one case) went to the completely wrong city. A code sounds foolproof, until you realise most people don't engage with them for most of their lives - you don't tell the uber driver the zip/post code you are waiting in, and travell…

> I have a 4 digit postcode, I have to look it up every time I have to fill in an address form for delivery.

> A code sounds foolproof, until you realise most people don't engage with them for most of their lives - you don't tell the uber driver the zip/post code you are waiting in, and travelling to, nobody does.

When the above comments said +4, they meant knowing the second half of the nine digit zip code.

Basically everyone in the US knows the first 5 digits. It's really easy to memorize them. If you can remember your city, you can remember your zip code. And in the US you use it all the time, so it stays memorized.

> edit: just to add - Magic numbers are bad. Software engineers know that a number that's undocumented in code is unmaintainable, a zip code is worse.

That complaint about magic numbers is completely off base. Magic strings are just as bad in software. "Beverly Hills" and 90210 are equal sins on the magic front.

Re: Put the zip code first

#198

Post by jasomill »

dataflow wrote: post #181
jcrawfordor wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USPS doesn't care; each ZIP code has a single preferred city name and a list of acceptable alternate city names to account for cases in which a ZIP code spans multiple cities. However, USPS's address validation will prefer to use the preferred city name for the ZIP regardless of whether the recipient actually lives within the boundaries of that city. That's because USPS has opted to organize addressing entirely aroun…

> Technically speaking ZIP codes are not "supposed" to span states but, in exceptional cases, some do. In this case USPS handles it the same way: the state of the preferred city is the preferred state for the ZIP code. I've heard this before but it raises a million questions for me and I don't understand how this doesn't cause massive systematic problems and headaches in practice. Are residents even usually well-awar…

My dad had an address in Morgantown, Indiana, and the fact that he lived several miles south, over the county line and past antother small town, always made it pretty clear to me that he didn't live in Morgantown.

Likewise, if you live in another state, there's little confusion because state lines appear on maps and are well marked on all major roads.

Businesses and individuals are responsible for knowing which state they reside in and paying the appropriate taxes, regardless of where their mail is sorted.

As for elections, electoral districts don't generally align with city limits in the first place, so this has to be sorted out by the election registration system based on the full address in most cases anyway.

As for what city name appears in legal documents, the answer is that "preferred" doesn't mean "mandatory". A warrant to search the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, 4790 W 16th St, Speedway IN, 46222, would be perfectly valid, despite the fact that the USPS prefers mail to be addressed to "Indianapolis" rather than "Speedway". For there to be any possibility of confusion, you'd need to have two distinct locations, whose identical addresses share a ZIP code, and differ only by city name, which for obvious reasons the postal service will not allow.

Re: Put the zip code first

#199

Post by wildzzz »

Spooky23 wrote: post #57
loloquwowndueo wrote: post #10

US-centric. I typed a Mexico postal code (it’s five digits) and got routed to somewhere in Maine. So - yeah the whole “I can tell you’re in the US just by the zip code” premise is entirely flawed.

The UI pattern is still stupid. You should be able to quickly enter forms like this on a keyboard. When I look for a part for my car, I pick “Honda”, “Model Year”, “model”, “trim”. With address forms, if I type “U” in a keyboard aware field, it defaults to “US Minor Outlying Islands”. Places that try to accommodate will put the US and Canada first. If you asked country, first, you could utilize the postcode method. S…

A tangent, but I've always wondered what is the most efficient way to order the drop-down menus for year, make and model. Assuming your a retailer for hard to find car parts, e.g. rockauto, how do you order those menus such that someone has to do the least amount of scrolling? Year cuts down a number of defunct or newer manufacturers but Make cuts down the number of years for that same group.

Re: Put the zip code first

#200

Post by Dylan16807 »

loloquwowndueo wrote: post #155
scottlamb wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great. Pretty sure jen20 did too; they are replying to a comment pointing out the article is wrong and suggesting a compromise between the web default "enter all your address, then the zipcode" and the article's "you don't ever need to touch the country, state, or city fields" that is closer to working beyond the US. In that context, I find it strange and rude that you're suggesting they didn't read the article.

You also suggested I hadn’t read it. “I won't violate the site guidelines by suggesting you didn't read it”. Only you did (saying you won’t say something and then saying it doesn’t really absolve you). I find you rude so I won’t reply to you anymore.

They were pointing your own faulty claim back at you, in the hope that you would reconsider it.

You should not be treating it as a standalone accusation, and it's not justified for you to get mad at them without getting just as mad at yourself.

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