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Tech jobs are getting demolished in ways not seen since 2008

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Re: Tech jobs are getting demolished in ways not seen since 2008

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Employees on work visas are the first and easiest employees to lay off because we don't see our insurance premiums rise when laying them off (it's what most of us did early during COVID). And now with the $100K fees we have no incentive to hire most employees on a work visa anyhow. Hear that sound? It's the sound of GCCs opening in Poland, Romania, Israel, and India with those employees who were on work visas in the…

Meta MLE hiring seems to still be going strong. They recently picked up a whole slew of people - all H1B - from one of the UCSD labs to work at HQ.

> Meta MLE hiring

> from one of the UCSD labs

That's why.

For bleeding edge R&D, we still hire domestically because the capacity, network, and capital remains in the US, but these roles will overwhelmingly be in the Bay or NYC as I mentioned above, and will overwhelmingly recruit from a handful of top programs with an established track record.

Most HNers are median or below median (that's how medians work because life is a Gaussian distribution) so a large portion will be negatively impacted.

Sam who did his BSCS at Michigan State and Sandeep who did his MSCS without a thesis at SUNY New Platz will be negatively impacted, but Sarah who did her BSCS at UT Austin or Sarita who did her MSCS with thesis at UIUC will be hired.

Similarly for L1/2, it ain't happening unless you have a proven track record at a US comparable office like MSRL Bangalore, but that candidate would have ended up at a top CS program doing an MS/PhD anyhow and have a relatively easy path to immigrate to the US.

Basically, the same funda that exists in India about university tiers for hiring has returned to the US, but a lot of HNers aren't ready for this level of competition.

The difference between Kamal who is slogging at a mid-level SWE at Infosys in Indore and Karl who's working as a SWE at Cisco's NC office is marginal - both are going to be made structurally unemployed, with Kamal's work going to be automated with a CodeGen LLM in the hands of a junior SWE, and Karl's job being moved to a Cisco GCC in India, Eastern Europe, or LatAm.

The only way either can protect themselves is to find a way to end up at a top employer in a major hub.

Edit: can't reply

> What do you mean

Basically, it's best for all of us (be us SWEs, PMs, VCs, or SEs) to assume that we are average or below average, as that allows us to think strategically and defensively, thus allowing us to reduce our risk and take any advantage that we can.

That requires a level of competitiveness and strategic thinking that some may find distasteful, but it's the only way you can survive in the industry long term.

It doesn't mean hurt or negatively impact anyone always, but it requires one to be realistic and recognize that we are not in a stag-hunt but a Hobbesian trap.

Re: Tech jobs are getting demolished in ways not seen since 2008

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meta MLE hiring seems to still be going strong. They recently picked up a whole slew of people - all H1B - from one of the UCSD labs to work at HQ.

> Meta MLE hiring > from one of the UCSD labs That's why. For bleeding edge R&D, we still hire domestically because the capacity, network, and capital remains in the US, but these roles will overwhelmingly be in the Bay or NYC as I mentioned above, and will overwhelmingly recruit from a handful of top programs with an established track record. Most HNers are median or below median (that's how medians work because lif…

My point was that H1B hiring still seems strong. Despite the fees and stuff.

Otherwise yeah what you're saying makes sense.

Re: Tech jobs are getting demolished in ways not seen since 2008

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Meta MLE hiring > from one of the UCSD labs That's why. For bleeding edge R&D, we still hire domestically because the capacity, network, and capital remains in the US, but these roles will overwhelmingly be in the Bay or NYC as I mentioned above, and will overwhelmingly recruit from a handful of top programs with an established track record. Most HNers are median or below median (that's how medians work because lif…

My point was that H1B hiring still seems strong. Despite the fees and stuff. Otherwise yeah what you're saying makes sense.

It depends on the tier of H1B hiring. I think you study/studied at an INI so your peer group has more in common with Sarah and Sarita instead of Sam, Sandeep, Karl, or Kamal.

In a lot of cases, Sandeep used to be Kamal, and these are the Desis on H1Bs or L1s who are getting laid off or forced to consider moving back to India, the UK, the EU, Australia, etc.

Re: Tech jobs are getting demolished in ways not seen since 2008

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meta MLE hiring seems to still be going strong. They recently picked up a whole slew of people - all H1B - from one of the UCSD labs to work at HQ.

> Meta MLE hiring > from one of the UCSD labs That's why. For bleeding edge R&D, we still hire domestically because the capacity, network, and capital remains in the US, but these roles will overwhelmingly be in the Bay or NYC as I mentioned above, and will overwhelmingly recruit from a handful of top programs with an established track record. Most HNers are median or below median (that's how medians work because lif…

> Most HNers are median or below median (that's how medians work because life is a Gaussian distribution)

What do you mean?

Re: Tech jobs are getting demolished in ways not seen since 2008

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point was that H1B hiring still seems strong. Despite the fees and stuff. Otherwise yeah what you're saying makes sense.

It depends on the tier of H1B hiring. I think you study/studied at an INI so your peer group has more in common with Sarah and Sarita instead of Sam, Sandeep, Karl, or Kamal. In a lot of cases, Sandeep used to be Kamal, and these are the Desis on H1Bs or L1s who are getting laid off or forced to consider moving back to India, the UK, the EU, Australia, etc.

Tracks, I guess. MSDS@UCSD, MSA@GT, MSCS@CMU all got jobs at meta, IBM, amazon. First two in the bay, third one as well I think. MSCS@NCSU got an internship at amazon but did not get full time yet. MSCS@NEU also did not get anything yet. CS@Columbia did not get anything, but EE@Columbia (semicon stuff) got one in bell labs NJ.

Although naturalization is pretty difficult, I guess it's still a good deal to return at 30 with 4cr starting wealth.

Re: Tech jobs are getting demolished in ways not seen since 2008

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on the tier of H1B hiring. I think you study/studied at an INI so your peer group has more in common with Sarah and Sarita instead of Sam, Sandeep, Karl, or Kamal. In a lot of cases, Sandeep used to be Kamal, and these are the Desis on H1Bs or L1s who are getting laid off or forced to consider moving back to India, the UK, the EU, Australia, etc.

Tracks, I guess. MSDS@UCSD, MSA@GT, MSCS@CMU all got jobs at meta, IBM, amazon. First two in the bay, third one as well I think. MSCS@NCSU got an internship at amazon but did not get full time yet. MSCS@NEU also did not get anything yet. CS@Columbia did not get anything, but EE@Columbia (semicon stuff) got one in bell labs NJ. Although naturalization is pretty difficult, I guess it's still a good deal to return at 30…

> Although naturalization is pretty difficult, I guess it's still a good deal to return at 30 with 4cr starting wealth.

Yep. That's what Chinese nationals in the US began doing in the early 2010s when China was developmentally similar to India today - the cost/reward ratio diminished due to the GC backlog.

Re: Tech jobs are getting demolished in ways not seen since 2008

#48
post #6

I remember going to school for computer science back in 2004 and literally everyone around me thought I was an idiot. I worked a part time shift at a grocery store and 2 of my coworkers were CS grads without any job offers. Then in 2008 I graduated and the financial market collapsed. My first real programming job paid less than my grocery store job but I was happy I had my foot in the door. I don't remember when the…

Why did they think you were an idiot? I graduated in 2004 and I don't recall anyone thinking a CS degree was a bad idea.

Re: Tech jobs are getting demolished in ways not seen since 2008

#49
post #48
post #6

I remember going to school for computer science back in 2004 and literally everyone around me thought I was an idiot. I worked a part time shift at a grocery store and 2 of my coworkers were CS grads without any job offers. Then in 2008 I graduated and the financial market collapsed. My first real programming job paid less than my grocery store job but I was happy I had my foot in the door. I don't remember when the…

Why did they think you were an idiot? I graduated in 2004 and I don't recall anyone thinking a CS degree was a bad idea.

The dot-com bubble/crash had just happened and a lot of non-tech folks thought it would never come back. I remember telling my uncle I was going to intern at Amazon around 2005/6 and him asking me in all seriousness, "aren't they bankrupt?"

Re: Tech jobs are getting demolished in ways not seen since 2008

#50

New roles at my FAANG company are mostly outside HCOL areas, and often outside the US. It's not just outsourcing. These roles have real hiring standards, are getting real work for real teams, and they're remote. Outsourcing feels different this time because it's not some offshore contract team; it's full-time company stuff. Makes me wonder if it's just because WFH proved it works, so why not hire from Krakow? Edit: U…

> Makes me wonder if it's just because WFH proved it works, so why not hire from Krakow? As someone in the room when those decisions were/are made, pretty much. Additionally, when the COVID recession began (before the stimulus package) most employers were laying off employees on work visas or giving them the option to open and expand offices in their home country. A lot of senior Indian and Polish Googlers took the o…

For other readers, this is why things like nationalism are important (and so heavily taboo). They're the most effective antidote to this kind of immorality. Unions are an ok compromise, but still allow businesses to leave (rust belt, etc). I’m assuming above poster is an American and is happy to do business, live, etc in America while hollowing out its base for the sake of profits. Paying taxes does not absolve this kind of anti American behavior.

We need elites whose goal is to help their fellow Americans, not rootless capitalists willing to sell out their countrymen for profit. The goal of business is not to make money, it’s to enrich the people.

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