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Tech employment now significantly worse than the 2008 or 2020 recessions

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Re: Tech employment now significantly worse than the 2008 or 2020 recessions

#651
post #342

If things continue to get worse I really worry how many people might give up on life entirely. A lot of people in this industry don’t have a whole lot else going on for them, myself included. I grinded my 20s away trying to have a successful career and if that just gets pulled out from under me I’ve got absolutely nothing.

Please see a professional if these thoughts take up a lot of space.

You are not your profession. Life can and will change.

Re: Tech employment now significantly worse than the 2008 or 2020 recessions

#652
post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Damn, never thought about it like that. That seems a lot more practical and relevant than the Big Mac Index.

Yeah I think housing is the real index. CPI doesn’t make sense for individuals unless you build your own index.

did we just invent that or does housing-based cpi exist ?

Re: Tech employment now significantly worse than the 2008 or 2020 recessions

#653
I tried to gather some numbers and the situation is not great. 10 years ago there were 10 jobs for a single dev, now is 1:1.

https://lukasz-madon.github.io/hacker-news-monthly-top-level...

I'd be great to access some data on how many SDE were in top 1000 companies and how many jobs openings there were in the last 15 years.

Re: Tech employment now significantly worse than the 2008 or 2020 recessions

#654

In my very humble view, the mythical 10x developer can now be a 100x developer, and the 2x developer usually stays a 2x developer. We live in two parallel worlds right now. Some run an army of agents and ship somehow working and testable code, and some try to prove AI is not as good as them.

> somehow working and testable code, And then 1x developer comes and rewrites it to actually work.

that ship has sailed

Re: Tech employment now significantly worse than the 2008 or 2020 recessions

#655
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see it the opposite way actually with respect to the CS degree. If you earned your CS degree (or any degree) before 2022 or so, the value of that degree is going to grow and grow and grow until the last few people who had to learn before AI are dying out like the last COBOL developers AI has fundamentally broken the education system in a way that will take decades for it to fully recover. Even if we figure out how…

That's not something enthusiasts here and elsewhere want to hear, that's pretty obvious also in this discussion. People seems extremely polarized these days. AI is either the next wheel or abysmal doom for future generations. I see both and neither at the same time. In corporate environment where navigating processes, politics and other non-dev tasks takes significantly longer than actual coding, AI is just a bit bet…

Agree that AI is a force multiplier in small-cap and a better search at best in large-cap due to internal bureaucracy.

The bigger question (that remains to be seen and played out) is whether AI will be a forcing function towards small-cap. If smaller companies can build the same products as larger companies with fewer people then they can compete on price and win, hollowing out the revenue base of large-cap companies and leading to their downfall due to the dwindling workforce not having the culture to adapt. Of course reality is more complicated (moats, larger companies making too-good-to-be-true offers to acquire smaller competitors to prevent the emergence of genuine competition, boys-club who-you-know-not-what-you-know corruption via lawfare ...) so, yeah, remains to be seen.

Re: Tech employment now significantly worse than the 2008 or 2020 recessions

#656

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A person who only has real industry experience can very easily have never needed git at all. I know this shocks people who only have hobby or startup experience but git works very poorly at large scale and there are many big organizations who don't use it either because their solutions predate git, or they are newer companies that simply have good taste.

I’ve been in dev since CVS was a thing and did migrations across all of them really, svn, mg and finally git. I’ve worked in a broad swathe of industries and never once over 25 years have I ever seen an org not using source code management. I just don’t believe this at all.

I think you misread what I said.

Re: Tech employment now significantly worse than the 2008 or 2020 recessions

#657
post #10

The chart in the tweet represents year-on-year growth. Based on these figures alone the actual number of people employed in tech is still really high, and the numbers can't just go up forever. Also this only captures 6 industries, which is a narrow view of what would define "tech" these days. Not to say that the job market isn't tough but this graph is a very narrow view

Thank you. And those raw numbers in the chart that go back to 2001 are not normalized percentages; what’s happening right now is NOTHING like 2001.

But, it just doesn’t hit the same way on X to say “We are back to late 2023-levels of tech employment” or “The losses in tech jobs over the last 18 months give back two months of hiring in 2022”.

Re: Tech employment now significantly worse than the 2008 or 2020 recessions

#658

For the last 2 years I can't even get an interview despited having 14 years of experience and being up to date with development trends, libraries, languages, AI tooling, etc. I don't think the market is flooded with new devs as many state, I think we are in a deep silent crisis

Where are you located? What part of the industry?

Re: Tech employment now significantly worse than the 2008 or 2020 recessions

#659
post #10

The chart in the tweet represents year-on-year growth. Based on these figures alone the actual number of people employed in tech is still really high, and the numbers can't just go up forever. Also this only captures 6 industries, which is a narrow view of what would define "tech" these days. Not to say that the job market isn't tough but this graph is a very narrow view

> The chart in the tweet represents year-on-year growth. Can’t believe how many people are commenting without looking at what the chart means. We’ve lost 50k jobs last two years after decades of adding 100k+ every year including the pandemic highs of 300k+ per year. Total employment remains way above 2000s, 2008 and 2020 unlike the title suggests.

Yeah but, there are like 100K CS/IT graduates in the US every year. Tech jobs increasing 100K per year was just maintenance.

Lotta people in tech are going to struggle to find a job. That's the point.

Re: Tech employment now significantly worse than the 2008 or 2020 recessions

#660

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know it sounds like a good take, but I don’t really see it happening much in real life anymore. It’s more like the 1x developer gets frustrated and defensive, and shows the 5 stages of grief, try using AI and finds all the reason why it’s bad. Then goes ahead and refactors everything and breaks production.

I’m at this point too. I desperately want to hate AI, but it’s so incredibly competent. People who say LLM’s aren’t good generally just aren’t good at them

Exactly
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