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The Brand Age

paulgraham.com

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Re: The Brand Age

#341

Post by abetusk »

I only skimmed, and I was expecting a treaty on how "brand" is the new currency, but instead the thesis is the opposite:

> ... Is there some edifying lesson we can salvage from the wreckage? ... One obvious lesson is to stay away from brand. ... Sure, you might be able to make money this way ... but pushing people's brand buttons is just not a good problem to work on ...

> Go where interesting problems are, and you'll probably find that other smart and ambitious people have turned up there too. And later they'll look back on what you did together and call it a golden age.

Re: The Brand Age

#342

Post by BeetleB »

elevatortrim wrote: post #280
BeetleB wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I wouldn't call them ugly, I agree that they look just like, well, watches to me. I wouldn't pay a premium for any of them. Since I'm not into luxury watches, a common occurrence is: Me to a stranger: "Wow, cool watch! Which one is it?" Stranger: "Random cheap brand I found on Amazon." If you've never heard of Omega, Rolex, etc, chances are you won't be able to distinguish a cheap watch from an expensive watch.…

Of course, they look like normal watches, that’s the point. However, if you paid for, you would get an extremely polished watch, rares/high-quality materials, hand-checked for every imperfection etc. as opposed to an almost the same looking watch for a brand, say Orient, which you would be able to find minor imperfections even as a non-enthusiast.

I dunno. Having looked at cheaper watches, I don't see imperfections. I'll grant that over time they'll show up (quicker wear and tear).

Here's the thing: Ever since I was a kid, the following features were basic:

1. Tells time

2. Tells date

3. Stopwatch

4. Alarm

5. Chrono (yes, I used that a lot for years).

All this for $50 or less.

I'm assuming the >$100 watches have all this? If not, IMO, the watch is simply failing at the very basics. It shouldn't even be called a watch.

Then Tier 2:

- Timer

- Multiple alarms

- World time

I pay extra for these (and use all of them).

The next tier (Tier 3):

- No batteries and/or solar. Definitely no manual winding.

The next tier:

- Stuff like GPS, sunrise/sunset, etc.

Personally, only after Tier 3 would I consider paying extra for all the things you mentioned. But paying $300+ for a watch without a timer or world time? You've been scammed.

How much have you paid for a pen? Montblanc ball point pens can exceed $1000. Apply everything you said to a (ballpoint) pen - one that most likely will write poorer than a good $50 fountain pen - and you'll see how people view what you are saying.

Re: The Brand Age

#343

Post by chadash »

maguay wrote: post #233
chadash wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple clearly positions themselves as a premium product. There is some luxury element to it to (e.g., my friends will look down on me if I have an android), but it's not really the same as a true luxury product where brand is the main thing you are paying for. If you offered to sell me a macbook for 25% cheapr on condition that I remove the branding, I'd be happy to do so. I'm not a watch person, but I suspect that m…

Tudor says they'll pay around a third to a half for something pretty close made by the same parent company but with a different movement and branding.

Yes, but Tudor's brand is "it's built by the same company as Rolex".

Re: The Brand Age

#345

Post by greedo »

Imustaskforhelp wrote: post #335
alexpotato wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think, for better and worse, brands are a lot more than that. There is a great quote about this: "For things that are visible to other people when you use them, there are many brands. e.g clothes, cars, watches, skis, furniture etc For things that are not visible, there are much fewer brands e.g. underwear.

This might be social stigma, we will be stigmatized by society if we dont have appropriate clothes for right situations as such, we buy so many clothes that are visible depending on the number of occasions and everything because we have to look appropriate for that and this is where number of brands can stem up from too and this brand has brand value, because oh, you got that X company shirt nice. Nobody cares what b…

Ask a woman if she agrees that "Nobody cares what brand your underwear is because its(sic) hidden."

Re: The Brand Age

#346

Post by fragmede »

zahlman wrote: post #181
fragmede wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The something that happened was ChatGPT. Enough commenters didn't like the idea that everything they write publicly online is fed in as training data for AI that there's been a shift in this site's community. That, and everyone got laid off, either for section 174 or AI reasons, but Twitter employees are no longer collecting that fast paycheck and posting here. I'm sure a data scientist could make a good analysis of…

> Enough commenters didn't like the idea that everything they write publicly online is fed in as training data for AI that there's been a shift in this site's community. Pardon; your theory is that this attitude was prevalent among people who like discussing pg's writing, and that they have left in favour of a new crowd that doesn't care about pg but is also pro- the AI companies ? ... Because that doesn't seem to li…

Looking at the stats, there's been a huge influx of accounts. The theory that fits that isn't internal inconsistent is then there are multiple people using the sites that can be grouped into a set of people that don't care for pg, and a set of people that are pro-AI. How much of an intersection there is between those two groups, you get to imagine for yourself. The individuals in the group that see a PG essay, and go "Ooh, lemme dump my unfiltered opinion of him and not read the essay" and the individuals that won't bother with that link, and the individuals that comment on AI stories is a small set. The sata science query to prove me wrong wrong is left as an exercise for the reader.

Re: The Brand Age

#347

Post by garethsprice »

eucyclos wrote: post #255
titanomachy wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He’s probably also too rich for fancy watches to actually be a useful signal of wealth amongst his peers.

I had a coworker who became nouveau riche a while back- he made fuck you money day trading during the roaringkitty debacle - and one interesting thing he said about the experience was that he learned certain luxury goods, such as high end watches, don't depreciate. Like gold jewelry one can usually resell them for cost plus inflation. As such, his logic was that a fancy watch is essentially free while a cheap watch c…

Patek and Rolex have generally always held value well. The internet has brought price transparency and created a secondary market that has made this true for most well-known brands these days, with the caveat that there is not a high degree of liquidity (yes you can sell a Rolex same-day at a pawn shop but you'll take a big hit, otherwise you are waiting a while for a buyer and navigating various risks like scammers).

So you likely won't get rich day-trading (or even collecting) watches, but besides the initial capital investment it is not as irrational as it seems at first.

Of course, that only adds to the signaling power for the classes where merely having money isn't enough, and being a "savvy investor" is a status marker (ie. the upper-middle and nouveau riche).

The Patek Nautilus PG mentions is particularly interesting as a status symbol as it has not only held value but, for various reasons, been an outlier that has appreciated drastically in value. It'd be gauche even on Sand Hill Rd to wear a hat that says "My investments beat the S&P 500" — but for the last few years, flashing a Nautilus (~413% investment return from 2016-2026 vs ~322% in the S&P) is the equivalent of that, a self-reinforcing cycle boosting its value as a Veblen good where the high price is the point.

Re: The Brand Age

#348

Post by cschmidt »

manbitesdog wrote: post #288
benrutter wrote: post #274

I liked reading this essay, but, I get the same vibe as a lot of PG essays. Which is, great writing and really intelligent thinking on an interesting subject, but without really being aware of ther stuff people have previously said/thought on the topic. For instance: > Brand is what's left when the substantive differences between products disappear. I think, for better and worse, brands are a lot more than that. Bran…

There is a fantastic book on this topic called "By Design : Why There Are No Locks on the Bathroom Doors in the Hotel Louis XIV" that cover the inception of modern brands. It's a very similar story to what happened to watches. The industrial revolution made quality clothing accesible for everyone, so the cloth appearance no longer was a clear indicative of status, so brands started placing their emblems on the outsid…

Looks great. I just ordered it. Thanks for the recommendation.

Re: The Brand Age

#349

Post by zimpenfish »

Nursie wrote: post #332
zimpenfish wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm considering an upgrade to one that does blood pressure too. I've got the Aktiia/Hilo band and I'd recommend it if you're wanting to keep vague[0] track of your 24/7[0] blood pressure. Needs calibrating every couple of weeks against the band but that's not an onerous procedure[1][2]. (Probably worth getting a cheapo monitor as a secondary check though - I've got a Renpho bluetooth one.) [0] It only really takes…

So I have an old fashioned "Salter" inflatable BP cuff unit that takes a few AA batteries, that I take readings on sporadically, and as I am borderline problematic (the diastolic number is usually a little high, systolic is not amazing but could be worse, no meds currently) I'm kinda/sorta looking at something that can keep track a bit more often and less intrusively. But I was hoping that would be an updated Apple w…

> But I was hoping that would be an updated Apple watch

Yeah, I think that might come in the future but it's probably a patent minefield[0]. That said I think Ringconn mentioned that they were looking at implementing it for their smart rings in the "near future" - who knows?

[0] There's also the "calibration against the smart cuff" step which I'm guessing any solution would need and that's probably a whole other FDA/patent minefield. Also tricky to have to sell a watch model with a required cuff and have to disable the BP functionality on watches that don't have a matched cuff. You can imagine the HN headlines...

Re: The Brand Age

#350

Post by doron »

ChicagoBoy11 wrote: post #7

His point of Omega doubling-down on the things that would progressively harder to establish a moat on made me think about what we have been seeing with higher ed. It seems the "smart ones" definitely read the book that making the "education better," in a world where it is mostly free, was a fool's errand, and now the margins that they all compete it stray far, far away from the quality of the schooling. I work in K-1…

case in point - the "ivy league" schools are some of the most established "Brands" in existence today.

They are not really in the education business anymore — they're in the exclusivity and signaling business

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