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The L in "LLM" Stands for Lying

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Re: The L in "LLM" Stands for Lying

#321

Post by jamesjolliffe »

noemit wrote: post #106

Many people don't know this, but the Luddites were right. I studied Art History and this particular movement. One of the claims of the Luddites is that quality would go down, because their craft took half a lifetime to master (it was passed down from parent to chile.) I was able to feel wool scarves made in europe from the middle ages. (In museum storage, under the guidance of a curator) They are a fundamentally diff…

I love this comment. Thank you for your provocative first sentence, esoteric historical anecdote, and nuanced take. Goddamn Hacker News rules.

Re: The L in "LLM" Stands for Lying

#322

Post by shinycode »

jimnotgym wrote: post #108
shinycode wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No I don’t agree. Just because it’s « boilerplate », that does not mean it’s worthless or doesn’t carry novelty. There is « boilerplate » in building many things, house, cars etc where to add real new stuff it’s « always the same base » but you have to nail that base and there is real value in it. With craft and deep knowledge and pride. Every project is different and not everything can be made from a generic out-of-…

A house doesn't seem a good example, because it is made of physical things. from foundations import ConcreteStrip ConcreteStrip(x,y,z) Doesn't work for houses

There isn’t just concrete in a house. There is hundreds of things that could vary from house to house (even country to country and laws) so it’s more like the building blocs are not only imports of lib but the language itself (raw materials) which makes it a fit analogy for me

Re: The L in "LLM" Stands for Lying

#323

Post by aakresearch »

uriahlight wrote: post #246

Ironic article considering this website's 3D parallax effect with music and animation was all made with AI. /s

I think you are mistaken. I remember landing upon that website some time before 2023 and being greatly impressed by that very 3D parallax effect. To my knowledge there were no AI tools available in 2022 capable of producing effects like that. There are barely now. To my understanding it was made possible by another project of the same author [0] - check the date. Also check this [1] - dated 2003.

Is it so hard to accept that humans are more capable of doing intricate and impressive work than any LLM will ever be?

- [0] https://github.com/unconed/CSS3D.js

- [1] https://acko.net/blog/avs/

Re: The L in "LLM" Stands for Lying

#324

Post by runarberg »

delaminator wrote: post #281
runarberg wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your case would have been better if you had used Mad Max: Fury Road , or even Titanic as examples, rather then a mediocre TV show nobody remembers. Ugly Betty used green screens to make production cheaper, that did not improve the show (although it may have improved the profit margins). Mad Max: Fury Road on the other hand used CGI to significantly improve the visual experience. The added CGI probably increased the c…

> mediocre TV show Won 3 Primetime Emmys 52 wins & 124 nominations total https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0805669/awards/ I guess it's just too lowbrow for you.

Award winning shows and movies does not exclude forgettable cash grabs.

However, my counter examples included Grey’s Anatomy, Mad Max, and Titanic. None of these are considered high literature exactly (and all of them are award winning as well).

Re: The L in "LLM" Stands for Lying

#325

Post by 6510 »

morissette wrote: post #260
bombcar wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Procedural generation underlies the most popular game of all time (Minecraft) and is foundational for numerous other games of a similar type - Dwarf Fortress, et al. And it's used to power effect where you might not expect it (Stardew Valley mines). What procedural generation does NOT work at is generating "story elements" though perhaps even that can fall, Dwarf Fortress already does decently enough given that the p…

And here I thought the most popular game of all time was Soccer or Super Mario Bros 3

Quality is the same thing as popularity. That is why mcdonalds has 12 Michelin stars.

Re: The L in "LLM" Stands for Lying

#326

Post by antonyh »

teolandon wrote: post #314
margalabargala wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of those things where people who don't know how to use tools think they're bad, like people who would write whole sentences into search engines in the 90s. LLMs are bad at counting the number of rows in a spreadsheet. LLMs are great at "write a Python script that counts the number of rows in this spreadsheet".

Do you think asking any LLM in the next 100 years to "write a Python script that generates an OS" will work?

Yes, for some definition of OS. It could build a DOS-like or other TUI, or a list of installed apps that you pick from. Devices are built on specifications, so that's all possible. System API it could define and refine as it goes. General utilities like file management are basically a list of objects with actions attached. And so on... the more that is rigidly specified, the better it will do.

It'll fail miserably at making it human-friendly though, and attempt to pilfer existing popular designs. If it builds a GUI, it's be a horrible mashup of Windows 7/8/10/11, various versions of OSX / MacOS, iOS, and Android. It won't 'get' the difference between desktop, laptop, mobile, or tablet. It might apply HIG rules, but that would end up with a clone at best.

In short, it would most likely make something technically passable but nightmareish to use.

Re: The L in "LLM" Stands for Lying

#327

Post by pixl97 »

qsera wrote: post #192
vladms wrote: post #31

> Whether something is a forgery is innate in the object and the methods used to produce it. It doesn't matter if nobody else ever sees the forged painting, or if it only hangs in a private home. It's a forgery because it's not authentic. On a philosophical level I do not get the discussions about paintings. I love a painting for what it is not for being the first or the only one. An artist that paints something that…

>Me labeling "authentic" it or not should not affect it's artistic value. The problem with automated imitation generators is that they can produce thousands of painting that imitate Van Gogh, but does not have the same soul. It is the same reason why these things cannot create genuinely funny jokes. They cannot assess the funnyness of the themselves. They cannot feel, and cannot do the filtering based on emotion. It…

>but does not have the same soul.

Define soul, how about a legal/scientific description that accurately covers all bases?

The funny jokes thing is funny too, if someone told you a joke and you thought it was funny, then they told you it was from an LLM, would it stop being funny.

Re: The L in "LLM" Stands for Lying

#328

Post by bendmorris »

tovej wrote: post #53
raincole wrote: post #34

> Video games stand out as one market where consumers have pushed back effectively No, it's simply untrue. Players only object against AI art assets. And only when they're painfully obvious. No one cares about how the code is written. If you actually read the words used in Steam AI survey you'll know Steam has completely caved in for AI-gen code as well. It's specifically worded like this: > content such as artwork,…

An LLM has never saved me time. It has always produced something that doesn't quite work, has the rough shape of what I want, but somehow always gets all the details wrong. I can type up what I want much faster and be sure it's at least solving the right problem, even if it may have bugs. There are also tools to generate boilerplate that work much much better than LLMs. And they're deterministic.

You're going to get a lot of "skill issue" comments but your experience basically matches mine. I've only found LLMs to be useful for quick demos where I explicitly didn't care about the quality of implementation. For my core responsibility it has never met my quality bar and after getting it there has not saved me time. What I'm learning is different people and domains have very different standards for that.

Re: The L in "LLM" Stands for Lying

#329

Post by pixl97 »

mr_toad wrote: post #148
jesterswilde wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding art, what do you feel about museums? Why would you go see an original instead of simply looking at a jpg. Even if you aren't in the group, there is clearly a group of people who appreciate seeing the original, the thing that modified our collective artistic trajectory. Forgeries and master studies have a long history in art. Every classically trained worth their salt has a handful of forgeries under their b…

> Regarding art, what do you feel about museums? Why would you go see an original instead of simply looking at a jpg. Generally you get a much better ‘view’ of the artwork in a museum. It’s higher ‘resolution’ you can view it from multiple angles etc. There are some exceptions. You’re probably going to get a better look at the Mona Lisa online than if you try and see it at the Louvre.

Eh, there is plenty of artwork with high resolution scans online in which you'll have to take a magnifying glass to the museum if you want a closer view.

Re: The L in "LLM" Stands for Lying

#330

Post by pixl97 »

oreally wrote: post #61
vladms wrote: post #31

> Whether something is a forgery is innate in the object and the methods used to produce it. It doesn't matter if nobody else ever sees the forged painting, or if it only hangs in a private home. It's a forgery because it's not authentic. On a philosophical level I do not get the discussions about paintings. I love a painting for what it is not for being the first or the only one. An artist that paints something that…

> I would be curious how can this be applied to a human? Should we also cite all the courses, articles that we have read on a topic when we write code? Yea this is the kind of BS and counter-productiveness that irrational radicals try to push the crowd towards. The idea that one owns your observations of their work and can collect rent on it is absurd.

The Right to Read is a great story on showing just how greedy and stupid people would get if we allow them. Society and culture is large scale theft. Imagine having to pay to learn about the idea of fire, or to use the alphabet. Simply put humanity would have never progressed much farther than animals. And yet, as the complexity of our ideas increase, suddenly many humans start thinking that owning ideas, many forever, is just great and will not have any negative ramifications.
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