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The Self-Help Trap: What 20 Years of "Optimizing" Has Taught Me

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Re: The Self-Help Trap: What 20 Years of "Optimizing" Has Taught Me

#51

Post by pkaral »

Lots of good points. Just want to point out that this can quickly become another self improvement project with its own sources of stress, insecurity and so forth.

In Tibetan Buddhism, there is a lojong slogan: "Self-liberate even the antidote". It refers to exactly this -- the practices we use to get away from bad habits may themselves become bad habits. Rather than embarking on an infinitely recursive run of trying to stop self-improving, just don't be black-and-white about things.

One source (of many): https://medium.com/kaitlynschatch/lojong-practice-journal-se...

Re: The Self-Help Trap: What 20 Years of "Optimizing" Has Taught Me

#52

Post by ismail »

Agree with most of what he says. Fundamentally, we are relational and moral beings.

In Africa there is the concept of Ubuntu "I am because we are". Identity and personhood arises within community, rather than being constructed indivudually.

I think we need to differentiate between self-help in the modern sense, and viewing the self as a continuous process of engaging in meaningful activities, within community, with purpose that helps cultivate virtue. i.e "Becoming"

When self-help is treated as only individual optimisation, without any ultimate end it risk becoming self-referential.

Philosopher Charles Taylor describes a similar shift with modernity that he calls "Disengaged reason" [0]. Where reason is disconnected from moral frameworks, that once helped orient us.

The deeper issue may be Self-help/Improvement that is often not contained within these larger frameworks of meaning, that answer:

To what ultimate end?

[0] https://www.academia.edu/26548899/Disciplinarity_and_Islamic...

previously discussed here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46743214

also here:

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/ismaildhorat_a-new-world-does...

Re: The Self-Help Trap: What 20 Years of "Optimizing" Has Taught Me

#53

Post by Bishonen88 »

Didn't realize who's blog I'm reading. I was intrigued by the title, being a fan of 'self help' books. I mostly read about productivity (i.e. Feel-Good Productivity is a good one IMO), health, living a balanced life etc. and was expecting to find some a-ha moments in this post. I didn't. It confused me more than anything often talking about 'relationships' as if this is the only self-help kind of book there is.

And I have learnt a ton of lessons from self help books like the one I mentioned above, Arete, "how to make friends and influence people", Atomic Habits and others, without looking to fix any unhappiness, flaws of myself or whatnot. Was just curious what other, more experience people have learned about life that I can learn without having to wait 20-30+ years.

Re: The Self-Help Trap: What 20 Years of "Optimizing" Has Taught Me

#54

Post by mjklin »

mchaver wrote: post #35
PunchyHamster wrote: post #26

> The older I get, the more I think that self-help can be a trap. Sometimes the cure is worse than the disease. I say this after ~20 years of writing self-help and a lifetime of consuming it. so, the self help didn't help and he passed the problem on his readers. Great!

I am sure it helped his wallet though. Be wary of the aging sophist that repents.

If Books Could Kill did a podcast on “The Four-Hour Workweek” and pointed out he explains the scam he’s running on his own readers. I guess he figures the smart (?) ones can recreate it and the rest just follow the herd.

Re: The Self-Help Trap: What 20 Years of "Optimizing" Has Taught Me

#56

Post by mettamage »

apsurd wrote: post #21
mettamage wrote: post #15

> Self-help is dangerous precisely because it easily becomes self-fixation. In my self-help journey I came across meditation which ultimately led me to altruistic-based practices. So can't relate. > A focus on improving the self usually first requires finding problems with the self Oh I got in there the other way around. I wanted a few things out of life socially speaking but society was blocking me somehow. So I wen…

There's a lot of "I"s in your paragraph there. I think it's worth it to be ok with everyone being a little bit in the same boat of wanting to self-help, then becoming enamored with buddhist ideas, then grappling with everyday being just another human. In whatever order. I'm sure you mean well but just kinda irked me that you immediately put in the effort to "nope can't relate"

> I'm sure you mean well but just kinda irked me that you immediately put in the effort to "nope can't relate"

In part that's because I see the message of the post way too often and I haven't seen my message around that much. It's just to counterbalance it. I don't think the message of the post is wrong per se, but to me it comes across as such a strong statement of "this is how it is" that I want to say equally strong back (as one vote of the general public) "nope, can't relate, here is briefly why"

Re: The Self-Help Trap: What 20 Years of "Optimizing" Has Taught Me

#57

Post by matwood »

DieErde wrote: post #45
matwood wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some empathy for other people would go a long way.

I agree that more empathy would enrich mundane interactions. But I also think it is worthwhile to look for other adventurous people with whom I can share my own interests.

Adventure can take many forms, you just have to look outside yourself to see. For example, I’ve flown to Paris many times, that’s no longer an adventure for me (though I do love visiting the Louvre any time I’m in Paris). Finding adventure and interest in everyday life whether it’s traveling to a new place or visiting my local coffee shop is the real adventure for me. So many people are amazing, but you have to be curious. I wish you luck on finding whatever it is you’re seeking.

Re: The Self-Help Trap: What 20 Years of "Optimizing" Has Taught Me

#58

Post by mettamage »

egwor wrote: post #46
apsurd wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot of "I"s in your paragraph there. I think it's worth it to be ok with everyone being a little bit in the same boat of wanting to self-help, then becoming enamored with buddhist ideas, then grappling with everyday being just another human. In whatever order. I'm sure you mean well but just kinda irked me that you immediately put in the effort to "nope can't relate"

I think that hearing other points of view is important. I see time and time again that posts insinuate that there's no other point of view, and I think that highlighting one perspective is enough to show that this (as in the article) isn't some mathematically perfect piece of advice.

This is my intention, thanks. It's also not to say that my opinion is perfect either, it isn't.

Re: The Self-Help Trap: What 20 Years of "Optimizing" Has Taught Me

#60

Post by hirvi74 »

Propelloni wrote: post #18

Modern self-help is as much a sham as are management gurus, which is no surprise because they overlap. Who cannot recall "Start with why?" or the "7 habits of highly effective people"? They play on your insecurities and promise silver bullets. If they don't work it is because you are, of course, deficient. You need another self-help book or follow this guy on Insta. Indulging all this self-help stuff is just another…

In my experiences, professional help is often just as much of a sham too.
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