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The Self-Help Trap: What 20 Years of "Optimizing" Has Taught Me

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Re: The Self-Help Trap: What 20 Years of "Optimizing" Has Taught Me

#31

Post by azangru »

apsurd wrote: post #27
azangru wrote: post #6

Is it a style like his that LLMs have been copying lately? "It was cold out, but none of us were cold." "In that moment, there was nothing to do. Nothing to improve. Nothing to fix. It was perfect." "We’ve all seen it. Clear as day, you can see the goal post at the top: self-actualization. LFG! It’s time to journal and 80/20 myself! Pass me a shaman and some modafinil. That’s the mission. That’s the point. Right? But…

First impression is that's really his writing. He's a professional writer. Thing is it's like trying to be a professional writer. very different from actually good writing, as in literature. art. Nothing against Mr. Ferris, just very clearly happen to come across these "i'm trying really hard at good writing" styles in influencer type blogs.

> First impression is that's really his writing. He's a professional writer. Thing is it's like trying to be a professional writer.

I am not suggesting that this isn't his writing.

What I was wondering was whether these are the elements of style that LLMs have picked up.

Re: The Self-Help Trap: What 20 Years of "Optimizing" Has Taught Me

#32

Post by DieErde »

rendx wrote: post #17
DieErde wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everybody is adventurous; each in their own way. This is actually a common statement people make with whom I feel bored. I call it the "evasive defense". Me: "Let's fly to Paris tomorrow!" People: "Nah, I'm fine just doing what I did the last 3650 days. I wonder how I deal with this issue I have with my boss at work. That is enough adventure for me." Me: "Trash the job! Let's start a startup!" People: "Nah, that is n…

Have you actually shown genuine interest in their adventures, or is it you who defines what is adventurous and what is not, and not see that they defend against your interests, and by that protect their own? Why do you feel the need to make decisions for them? Is it you that is unhappy about their choices, or is it them? (How did your parents react to your wishes and desires? Was your autonomy celebrated, or dismisse…

I'm not making decisions for anybody. You can stay at home and watch your garden grow. Fine with me. I described what type of people I like. And that those are rather the pyramid climbers.

Re: The Self-Help Trap: What 20 Years of "Optimizing" Has Taught Me

#33

Post by apsurd »

azangru wrote: post #31
apsurd wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First impression is that's really his writing. He's a professional writer. Thing is it's like trying to be a professional writer. very different from actually good writing, as in literature. art. Nothing against Mr. Ferris, just very clearly happen to come across these "i'm trying really hard at good writing" styles in influencer type blogs.

> First impression is that's really his writing. He's a professional writer. Thing is it's like trying to be a professional writer. I am not suggesting that this isn't his writing. What I was wondering was whether these are the elements of style that LLMs have picked up.

Doubtful that any one dude could influence the model to that extent, unless deliberately weighted. Then again i don't know what the hell i'm talking about.

From what i gather, openAi particular flavor of response is from reinforcement learning, these PMs are intentionally gamifying it. just today literally every reply was followed with "… want me to show you the one trick you can implement to avoid…"

was gross.

Re: The Self-Help Trap: What 20 Years of "Optimizing" Has Taught Me

#34

Post by deafpolygon »

Poor Timmy. It’s hard when you spend two decades recycling the same crap-now we have to denounce said crap and gargle more “new” crap.

Self-help has never helped anyone. If it did, there wouldn’t be a massive industry waiting to prey on the people who are desperate for help.

Re: The Self-Help Trap: What 20 Years of "Optimizing" Has Taught Me

#35

Post by mchaver »

PunchyHamster wrote: post #26

> The older I get, the more I think that self-help can be a trap. Sometimes the cure is worse than the disease. I say this after ~20 years of writing self-help and a lifetime of consuming it. so, the self help didn't help and he passed the problem on his readers. Great!

I am sure it helped his wallet though. Be wary of the aging sophist that repents.

Re: The Self-Help Trap: What 20 Years of "Optimizing" Has Taught Me

#36

Post by matwood »

Propelloni wrote: post #18

Modern self-help is as much a sham as are management gurus, which is no surprise because they overlap. Who cannot recall "Start with why?" or the "7 habits of highly effective people"? They play on your insecurities and promise silver bullets. If they don't work it is because you are, of course, deficient. You need another self-help book or follow this guy on Insta. Indulging all this self-help stuff is just another…

There's definitely a procrastination trap that someone has to be aware of, but I wouldn't say all the self-help/management is a sham. Much like people who get stuck researching, there comes a point where you simply have to act. There's also value in learning how to quickly pull items out of texts that you can use right now and discarding the rest.

I liken it to jiujitsu in a way. When I first started and knew nothing, I needed a lot of instruction and of course then practice. After years of that, I can now take a simple tweak to something I've been doing for years and suddenly it's much more effective. Finding those tweaks is the challenge, while also avoiding chasing silver bullets or bouncing to new thing after new thing and never getting good at something.

Re: The Self-Help Trap: What 20 Years of "Optimizing" Has Taught Me

#37

Post by cousin_it »

apsurd wrote: post #29
Empirical135 wrote: post #28

[flagged]

damn, i'm finding this LLM response actually useful. It feels weird.

Yeah, the LLM is right. Sitting down with your discomfort and letting yourself feel it, acknowledge it, even maybe dial the volume up on it a little bit, without trying to process or think through it, is the only way that works.

Re: The Self-Help Trap: What 20 Years of "Optimizing" Has Taught Me

#38

Post by matwood »

DieErde wrote: post #14
47282847 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe it’s a lifelong journey towards healthy relationships with anyone. We don’t start there, and we might never get to the finish line. That includes non-violent boundary setting; not friends with everyone, but relationship. Soft boundaries, where you neither cling on to something that was but no longer is without the need to blame self or other, nor you avoid contact with something new and unknown. To let go o…

Everybody is adventurous; each in their own way. This is actually a common statement people make with whom I feel bored. I call it the "evasive defense". Me: "Let's fly to Paris tomorrow!" People: "Nah, I'm fine just doing what I did the last 3650 days. I wonder how I deal with this issue I have with my boss at work. That is enough adventure for me." Me: "Trash the job! Let's start a startup!" People: "Nah, that is n…

Some empathy for other people would go a long way.

Re: The Self-Help Trap: What 20 Years of "Optimizing" Has Taught Me

#39

Post by cachius »

>> If I fix the things that aren’t OK, all will be well. If I improve myself enough, if I only work hard enough, I can finally eliminate my suffering.

>I hate to inform you, but this doesn’t work. I’m also thrilled to inform you that this doesn’t work. You can stop picking up a lot of boulders.

Really reminds me of Oliver Burkeman. Take https://www.oliverburkeman.com/never for a start:

I might be stuck with certain inner disturbances forever [...] It turns out my really big problem was thinking I might one day get rid of all my problems, when the truth is that there's no escaping the mucky, malodorous compost-heap of this reality. Which is OK, actually. Compost is the stuff that helps things grow.

Re: The Self-Help Trap: What 20 Years of "Optimizing" Has Taught Me

#40

Post by RugnirViking »

rendx wrote: post #30
eternauta3k wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is something I keep thinking about: the spectrum between sainthood (selflessly hang out with the poor/uninteresting/selfish/etc) vs selfish optimization (becoming more interesting/pretty/rich/generous in order to have access to nicer people)

From my own experience, and yours might differ, I typically don't find that pretty or rich (or any other such attributes) make for more interesting and nicer. Why is it either selfless saint or egocentrism? You can do both!

I imagine the person is talking about optimising along the lines you personally value for. Some people may value being with other interesting people (and being interesting themselves), wheras others prefer to be around smart people, or beautiful people, or rich people. Many see some of these desires as misguided or foolish or vain or whatever (often when it conflicts with their own values), but it is true that at least some people seem to want these.
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