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BMW Group to deploy humanoid robots in production in Germany for the first time

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Re: BMW Group to deploy humanoid robots in production in Germany for the first time

#61
post #23

Whenever I hear german companies mention digitalisation, I get reminded that they still use pen and pencil in production environments to log data, pass those sheets to secreteries who enter the data into legacy systems so data analysts can enter it into another system that then has an integration with SAP. Data from SAP then flows onwards to some buzzword filled Azure product that costs a few million a month from whi…

SAP is truly terrible.

Re: BMW Group to deploy humanoid robots in production in Germany for the first time

#62
Seems so funny to me that we are building llms to write in english code for computers. And building robots to perform some automated processes in the shape of humans.

When are we going to rip the bandaid off, and skip bothering with the ux layer built for humans? I guess that is just old fashioned 20th century factory style automation that doesn't get headlines written about it, at least not in these decades.

Re: BMW Group to deploy humanoid robots in production in Germany for the first time

#63
post #23

Whenever I hear german companies mention digitalisation, I get reminded that they still use pen and pencil in production environments to log data, pass those sheets to secreteries who enter the data into legacy systems so data analysts can enter it into another system that then has an integration with SAP. Data from SAP then flows onwards to some buzzword filled Azure product that costs a few million a month from whi…

I used to work for the US side of a German multinational (one of the largest in the world) and discovered the same thing when it came to software.

The German side always had slick presentations (they always had good visual marketing) and impressive claims, but whenever I tried to work with their products, I always found the claims overstated and that they hadn't really executed deeply. This despite my German counterparts working hard (I visited HQ in Germany and when they work, they really work and clock the hours, no idle chitchat)... yet it doesn't translate to impact.

A lot of their products had impressive front-ends but half-baked back-ends (on the American side, it's the reverse -- our interfaces looked like crap, but our stuff actually worked and often delivered in less time).

A lot of their designs were also non-human friendly (if you've ever driven a German car, you'll realize that the car was built for engineers and not for end users -- weird little user-hostile features pop up everywhere). I don't understand why this is -- this is a nation that produced Dieter Rams. Tobi Lutke (CEO Shopify) likes to talk about how Germans grew up surrounded by good design, yet that design culture never permeated many German products. I own a Bosch in-unit washer/dryer and it's frustratingly unintuitive and has a "my (the engineer's) way or the highway" philosophy.

I went to a BMW talk once about the infotainment system (it was built on the latest Azure tech), but came away feeling that the work was not deep. It was skin deep.

I wonder what has happened to the German builder/tinkerer culture that made German manufacturing great. In the 1980s and 1990s, Germany was synonymous with excellence. But in the 2000s-present, not so much (except maybe in very narrow mittelstand verticals, e.g. Zeiss).

Re: BMW Group to deploy humanoid robots in production in Germany for the first time

#64
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My prediction is that by the time humanoid robots actually make it to the factory floor, they'll be pretty un-humanoid. 90% of car manufacturing is done by oldschool industrial robots, and I've had people point out that heavy use of industrial robots are basically unique to the car industry. You might see a robot arm here and there in other industries, but it's somewhat rare, usually its all purpose-built machines or…

I agree and for me personally this is very easy to see and understand. Why do you think the vast majority of people fail to see it like this? Guys like Musk obvious hype it up as he now has tied the valuation of the firms he owns and operates to this story.

I don't disagree with the general utility of humanoid (or other multipurpose) robots, just not in a factory setting.

I think automating stuff in the factory makes zero sense - its a controlled environment with purpose designed tooling where anything that makes sense to automate has been automated. All the extra work will only result in marginal gains.

It's automating the stuff that goes on outside of the factories - for example construction imo is about almost as labor intensive as it was a century ago, the marginal gains were offset by more complex building techniques and higher expectations.

Housing is also just about the most valuable thing that exists in every country.

Re: BMW Group to deploy humanoid robots in production in Germany for the first time

#65
post #24

Seems to be this European robotics company https://robotics.hexagon.com/product/ https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/hexagon-robotics-ai-software-a...

My prediction is that by the time humanoid robots actually make it to the factory floor, they'll be pretty un-humanoid. 90% of car manufacturing is done by oldschool industrial robots, and I've had people point out that heavy use of industrial robots are basically unique to the car industry. You might see a robot arm here and there in other industries, but it's somewhat rare, usually its all purpose-built machines or…

Cars are in the intersection where you have large parts that need to be moved around where other things happen with them and large scale of standard designs that is worth automating.

I expect that when we manage to do automated construction, it will use robot arms in several places too. But it's very rare that those two happen at the same time. Usually, large things are not standard.

Re: BMW Group to deploy humanoid robots in production in Germany for the first time

#66
post #23

Whenever I hear german companies mention digitalisation, I get reminded that they still use pen and pencil in production environments to log data, pass those sheets to secreteries who enter the data into legacy systems so data analysts can enter it into another system that then has an integration with SAP. Data from SAP then flows onwards to some buzzword filled Azure product that costs a few million a month from whi…

This describes large companies everywhere

I encountered oil wells essentially controlled by post-it notes passed around an office.

Re: BMW Group to deploy humanoid robots in production in Germany for the first time

#67
post #23

Whenever I hear german companies mention digitalisation, I get reminded that they still use pen and pencil in production environments to log data, pass those sheets to secreteries who enter the data into legacy systems so data analysts can enter it into another system that then has an integration with SAP. Data from SAP then flows onwards to some buzzword filled Azure product that costs a few million a month from whi…

This describes large companies everywhere I encountered oil wells essentially controlled by post-it notes passed around an office.

Maybe they found the PostIt notes worked better than whatever software they tried.

Re: BMW Group to deploy humanoid robots in production in Germany for the first time

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They make connecting SAP so difficult... this is the only way

It's not how it works. You suppose to contract a consulting company that contracts some offshore company to connect you to SAP.

I wonder if it’s cheaper to just have an AI write the parts of SAP you actually need.

Re: BMW Group to deploy humanoid robots in production in Germany for the first time

#69
Looks like they already have been testing it in the Spartanburg, SC, USA plant (just outside of Greenville SC [also I think the largest BMW factory in the world making most of their SUVs]). Still I don't get why a humanoid robot would be a thing for car making, a robot arm seems like it'd almost always be more efficient.

Re: BMW Group to deploy humanoid robots in production in Germany for the first time

#70
Not sure this counts as "humanoid" any more than the robots we've had in factories for a century... the hands and feet are nothing like a human's, and would not be improved by being more human.

It seems they just made the shape of their machine have a vaguely human silhouette so they could ride a hype wave.

I'm all for programmable humanoid robots, humans are an awesome human interface, but this ain't it.

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