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Agentic Engineering Patterns

simonwillison.net

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Re: Agentic Engineering Patterns

#131

Post by jvidalv »

maciusr wrote: post #116

[flagged]

I work as a consultant so I navigate different codebases, old to new, typescript to javascript, massive to small, frontend only to full stack.

Claude Code experience is massively different depending on the codebase.

Good E2E strongly typed codebase? Can one shot any feature, some small QA, some polishing and it's usually good to ship.

Plain javascript? Object oriented? Injection? Overall magic? Claude can work there but is not a pleasant experience and I wouldn't say it accelerates you that much.

Re: Agentic Engineering Patterns

#132

Post by MartyMcBot »

mohsen1 wrote: post #6

I've experimented with agentic coding/engineering a lot recently. My observation is that software that is easily tested are perfect for this sort of agentic loop. In one of my experiments I had the simple goal of "making Linux binaries smaller to download using better compression" [1]. Compression is perfect for this. Easily validated (binary -> compress -> decompress -> binary) so each iteration should make a dent o…

[flagged]

Re: Agentic Engineering Patterns

#133

Post by simonw »

bavell wrote: post #128
simonw wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This chapter describes a technique for making code reviews less mentally burdensome: https://simonwillison.net/guides/agentic-engineering-pattern... I'm hoping to add more on that topic as I discover other patterns that are useful there.

Asking for a walkthrough of the codebase? Sure you linked to the right page? I was expecting tips on code review instead based on your comment and GP.

It's the closest I have to touching on code review so far.

Re: Agentic Engineering Patterns

#134

Post by throwaway_20357 »

I see where Simon is coming from with these patterns but I wonder where large software companies stand regarding their agentic engineering practices? Is Google creating in-house code using agents against its monorepo? Has Microsoft outsourced Windows source code advancements to a dark factory yet?

Re: Agentic Engineering Patterns

#135

Post by rune-dev »

paganel wrote: post #61
abm53 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rebuttal to this would be that you can do many such tasks in parallel. I’m not sure it’s really true in practice yet, but that would certainly be the claim.

But can you mentally "keep hold" (for lack of a better term) of those tasks that are getting executed in parallel? Honestly asking. Because, after they're done/have finished executing, I guess you still have to "check" their output, integrate their results into the bigger project they're (supposedly) part of etc, and for me the context-switching required to do all that is mentally taxing. But maybe this only happens…

The type of dev who is allowing AI to do all of their work does not care about the quality of said work.

Re: Agentic Engineering Patterns

#136

Post by jghn »

lelanthran wrote: post #113
benrutter wrote: post #10

I use AI in my workflow mostly for simple boilerplate, or to troubleshoot issues/docs. I've dipped into agentic work now and again, but never been very impressed with the output (well, that there is any functioning output is insanely impressive, but it isn't code I want to be on the hook for complaining). I hear a lot of people saying the same, but similarly a bunch of people I respect saying they barely write code a…

> I've dipped into agentic work now and again, but never been very impressed with the output (well, that there is any functioning output is insanely impressive, but it isn't code I want to be on the hook for complaining). > I hear a lot of people saying the same, but similarly a bunch of people I respect saying they barely write code anymore. It feels a little tricky to square these up sometimes. It squares up just f…

I also will rewrite both text and code created by Gen AI. I've found the best workflow for me is not to refine what I've written, but instead to use it to help me get over humps and/or crank through some of the drudgery. And then I go back and edit, fixing any issues I spot and to reshape it to be in my own voice.

I do this with code too.

Re: Agentic Engineering Patterns

#137

Post by jghn »

vessenes wrote: post #36
sd9 wrote: post #30

I've recently got into red/greed TDD with claude code, and I have to agree that it seems like the right way to go. As my projects were growing in complexity and scope, I found myself worrying that we were building things that would subtly break other parts of the application. Because of the limited context windows, it was clear that after a certain size, Claude kind of stops understanding how the work you're doing in…

Red/green is especially good with claude because even now with opus 4.6, claude can throw out a little comment like “//Implementation on hold until X/Y/Z: return { true }” and proceed to completely skip implementation based on the inline skip comment for a longgg time. It used to do this aggressively even in the tests, but by and large red/green prompting helps immensely - it tells the agent “think of failing tests a…

Granted it doesn't always pay attention to Claude.md but one thing I've done is in my block of rules it must always follow is to never leave something unimplemented w/ placeholders unless explicitly told to do so. It's made this mostly go away for me.

Re: Agentic Engineering Patterns

#138

Post by anon-3988 »

simonw wrote: post #130
storus wrote: post #126

These lessons get obliterated with every new LLM generation. Like how LangChain started on stupid models with small context, creating some crazy architecture around it to bypass their limitations that got completely obliterated when GPT-3.5 was released, yet people still use it and overcomplicate things. Rather look at where the puck is going, we might soon not need more than a single agent to do everything given con…

I'm trying to include patterns that work independently of model releases. It's tricky though. Take "red/green TDD" for example - it's perfectly possible that models will start defaulting to doing that anyway pretty soon. In that case it's only three words so it doesn't feel hugely wasteful if it turns out not to be necessary - and there's still value in understanding what it means even if you no longer have to explic…

The biggest takeaway for me from LLMs is that the implementation details no longer. If you have a sufficiently detailed tests and requirements, there is going to be a robot that will roll the dice until it fits the tests and requirements.

Re: Agentic Engineering Patterns

#139

Post by [deleted] »

logicprog wrote: post #69
Madmallard wrote: post #56

patterns that may help increase subjective perception of reliability from non-deterministic text generators trained on the theft of millions of developer's work for the past 25 years.

I think it's nonsensical to insist that it would only be a subjective improvement. The tests either exist and ensure that there aren't bugs in certain areas, or they don't. The agent is either in a feedback loop with those tests and continues to work until it has satisfied them or it doesn't.

[deleted]

Re: Agentic Engineering Patterns

#140

Post by 63stack »

lbreakjai wrote: post #109

We're going to do it again, aren't we? We're going to take something simple and sensible ("write tests first", "small composable modules", etc.), give it a fancy complicated name ("Behavior-Constrained Implementation Lifecycle pattern", "Boundary-Scoped Processing Constructs pattern", etc.), and create an entire industry of consultants and experts selling books and enterprise coaching around it, each swearing they ha…

People are rushing to be the first one to coin something and hit it big. Imagine the amount of $$$ you could get for being an "expert ai consultant" in this space.

There was already another attempt at agentic patterns earlier:

https://agentic-patterns.com/

Absolute hot air garbage.

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