Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Patent troll claims it invented the Windows 8 and Windows Phone “tiles”

arstechnica.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 72 posts

Re: Patent troll claims it invented the Windows 8 and Windows Phone “tiles”

#31

Post by imglorp »

indiecore wrote: post #21
tsycho wrote: post #7

I am glad that a patent troll has directly attacked one of the software giants. Now hopefully Microsoft with its deep pockets and legal team can crush this troll.

They will probably just pay them off, it's simpler.

It's doubly in Microsoft's interest to settle. First, the troll goes away without a more expensive a jury trial to invalidate the patent.

But more importantly, the troll will take that intact patent and its now overflowing coffers and go off after Microsoft's competitors. So it's a twofer.

Bet on it.

Re: Patent troll claims it invented the Windows 8 and Windows Phone “tiles”

#32

Post by politician »

kstrauser wrote: post #30

It sounds like SurfCast owns some pretty valuable intellectual property. Good for them! Of course, I wonder if they've been paying taxes on that property. If not, then Maine Revenue Services might be interested in the fact that a local corporation has been evading their taxes. On the other hand, if SurfCast is willing to attest to the Maine Revenue Service that their property has no value and should not be taxed, the…

Are you suggesting that IP owners owe (real estate) property taxes?

Re: Patent troll claims it invented the Windows 8 and Windows Phone “tiles”

#33

Post by jlgreco »

politician wrote: post #32
kstrauser wrote: post #30

It sounds like SurfCast owns some pretty valuable intellectual property. Good for them! Of course, I wonder if they've been paying taxes on that property. If not, then Maine Revenue Services might be interested in the fact that a local corporation has been evading their taxes. On the other hand, if SurfCast is willing to attest to the Maine Revenue Service that their property has no value and should not be taxed, the…

Are you suggesting that IP owners owe (real estate) property taxes?

That would have some interesting consequences. Could I suddenly owe lots of taxes if I get a really great business idea that I think is worth a lot?

Re: Patent troll claims it invented the Windows 8 and Windows Phone “tiles”

#34

Post by jlgreco »

debacle wrote: post #13
jakejake wrote: post #8

Is it possible to sue a patent troll for time and legal fees if you win the original case? I know they are basically shell corporations, but it would be great to see these patent cases incurring some risk for the trolls.

What is the risk to a company whose only asset is the patent which, should they fail to win their case, is probably useless anyway?

Could it be possible to pierce the corporate veil in these cases and go after the people actually running them? Seems like the correct response, if these people are using corporations as throw-away legal weapons.

Re: Patent troll claims it invented the Windows 8 and Windows Phone “tiles”

#35

Post by jlarocco »

rayiner wrote: post #25
debacle wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the risk to a company whose only asset is the patent which, should they fail to win their case, is probably useless anyway?

Welcome to the problem of limited liability corporations in general. You think it's irksome to win a judgment against a shell that has no assets in the patent troll context, imagine it in the environmental damage, shareholder fraud, etc, context.

On the other hand, imagine losing your house, car and savings because somebody finds a bug in your product and sues you...

Re: Patent troll claims it invented the Windows 8 and Windows Phone “tiles”

#36

Post by slapshot »

kstrauser wrote: post #30

It sounds like SurfCast owns some pretty valuable intellectual property. Good for them! Of course, I wonder if they've been paying taxes on that property. If not, then Maine Revenue Services might be interested in the fact that a local corporation has been evading their taxes. On the other hand, if SurfCast is willing to attest to the Maine Revenue Service that their property has no value and should not be taxed, the…

An interesting idea, but which Maine tax would apply? I'm not a Maine tax lawyer, but it looks like Maine has plenty of taxes, including a "Blueberry Tax" [1][2], but there doesn't appear to be a general assets tax. Any corporate income from licensing the patent would be taxed just the same as any other income.

Maine's property tax appears to apply only to "real property" (land) and "tangible" personal property [3] ("tangible" property includes tractors, factory equipment, and other things you can pick up and hold --- patents and other IP are "intangible personal property.")

If you think it's a capital asset subject to capital gains taxation, there's usually no tax on that until the gain is realized by sale. I don't know how patents are taxed in states with general ad valorem taxes, but Maine doesn't seem to be one of those states.

[1] http://www.maine.gov/revenue/othertaxes/homepage.html [2] http://www.mainelegislature.org/legis/statutes/36/title36ch0... [3] http://www.mainelegislature.org/legis/statutes/36/title36sec...

Re: Patent troll claims it invented the Windows 8 and Windows Phone “tiles”

#37

Post by mullingitover »

imglorp wrote: post #31
indiecore wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They will probably just pay them off, it's simpler.

It's doubly in Microsoft's interest to settle. First, the troll goes away without a more expensive a jury trial to invalidate the patent. But more importantly, the troll will take that intact patent and its now overflowing coffers and go off after Microsoft's competitors . So it's a twofer. Bet on it.

Don't the sales reps in the MS stores claim "No other mobile OS has live tiles"?

Re: Patent troll claims it invented the Windows 8 and Windows Phone “tiles”

#38

Post by illuminate »

SethMurphy wrote: post #29

For those interested in the actual patent here is a link: http://www.surfcast.com/images/pdfs/US6724403.pdf I particularly find the following quote interesting from the last line on the first page: "The present invention is intended to operate in a platform independent manner."

In that they are interested in suing as many platform developers as possible?

Re: Patent troll claims it invented the Windows 8 and Windows Phone “tiles”

#39

Post by hfs »

at-fates-hands wrote: post #17

I know there has been a spat of these recently, but I always think about Robert Kearns and his lifelong battle against Ford for his intermittent windshield wiper patent. As much as we hate patent trolls, once and a while, there is an exception to rule which proves us all wrong.

Tangible item vs. intangible idea with no actual working implementation. I can patent the idea of time travel with enough vague descriptions of an implementation that don't require a great knowledge of the subject on my part, that doesn't mean I can make it happen. Should that really qualify for a patent?

Re: Patent troll claims it invented the Windows 8 and Windows Phone “tiles”

#40

Post by thirdtruck »

at-fates-hands wrote: post #17

I know there has been a spat of these recently, but I always think about Robert Kearns and his lifelong battle against Ford for his intermittent windshield wiper patent. As much as we hate patent trolls, once and a while, there is an exception to rule which proves us all wrong.

But the question of "does the small guy ever benefit from patents" tells us nothing useful. Only the proportion of cost to benefit matters here.

People sometimes win the lottery. Does that provide reason enough to start buying tickets instead of groceries?

Post reply on HN