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Don't become an engineering manager

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Re: Don't become an engineering manager

#131

Post by democracy »

Swizec wrote: post #107
Aurornis wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that it really depends on the organisation. This is entirely it. Titles should be consistently ordered within an organization, but they are not portable from one organization to another. This is a lesson I’ve had to explain over and over to people at the beginning of their careers. I’ve been asked for advice about which offer to take from people thinking about leaving 10s of thousands of dollars on the table becaus…

> When hiring, titles are basically ignored As a hiring manager, this is completely accurate. I don't look at your title, I look at your scope . Tell me what you did, for whom, and what was the impact. That's all I care about. We all know that Senior Principal Architect Engineer at 3-person startup is somewhere around junior to mid-level at a real company. Whereas some poor schmuck at a larger company with a title li…

Interesting, you've got it absolutely the wrong way around.

Re: Don't become an engineering manager

#132

Post by alephnerd »

willahmad wrote: post #72
alephnerd wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Engineering Manager positions often have more of an upside with bonuses / incentives than Engineers get Not really. Staff Eng and above will end up making similar to an EM including bonuses and has much more job mobility. You have to remember that most EM roles only open up once you hit Staff, so you are basically taking much more responsibility and longer hours for a marginal salary impact. Engineering Manager job…

> Staff Eng .... has much more job mobility Not really. Above Staff and Staff+ companies are usually looking for expertise in domain, in addition to cross org leadership. Unless you want to get hired with Sr title. Management is different though, you have highly transferrable skillset, managing people, up and down.

> Management is different though, you have highly transferrable skillset, managing people, up and down

Most tech companies are not hiring an EM without relevant domain experience. "People Management" is a table stakes skill in 2026 and Staff/Principal Engineers and Product Managers largely offer that as well as technical or product insight.

Additionally, it's something that can be cultivated in-house and is why internal promotions to EM tend to be preferred unless a director, principal engineer, or PM is getting their friend a job (which happens fairly often).

Re: Don't become an engineering manager

#133

Post by madrox »

Every job in engineering is changing right now. Managers aren't immune. I've been an EM for almost 20 years in some flavor or another, and I've been thinking a lot about how I want to adapt to this era.

This is the first time I've seriously considered swapping out of management. Not for any of the reasons the author says, but because:

- I don't feel as confident mentoring others through this period given how much the work is changing

- I find myself enjoying the work more

- EMs tend to have more difficulty justifying their existence at the best of times let alone a period of change like this

The AI world will still need EMs. It's just unclear what those EMs will be doing every day and how it will work.

Re: Don't become an engineering manager

#134

Post by coredev_ »

jf22 wrote: post #127
coredev_ wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an EM I don't get this. You are the sole responsible for quality. You are the sole responsible for what tools use. AI is voluntary to use. If AI produces code that no one knows and is hard to maintain, don't use AI in that way. If you can't make that decision, are you really the EM?

I don't understand he comment. AI produces code that people can understand and is easy to maintain if you ask it for that.

Maybe I misunderstood your initial comment

Re: Don't become an engineering manager

#135

Post by alephnerd »

ahtihn wrote: post #83
alephnerd wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you underestimate the job mobility that is lost when you transition from being an individual contributor into someone on the management track. The reality is, there are very few EM and above jobs, and job security is tough - if I have to choose between firing an EM or a SWE, I'd fire the EM first because I can always find another replacement or split their responsibilities across multiple individual contribut…

> if I have to choose between firing an EM or a SWE When does this choice ever come up? My experience is that most engineers are seen as interchangeable while most EMs aren't. Only time I've seen EMs fired for economic reasons is when a larger amount of engineers were also laid off.

> When does this choice ever come up

Fairly often, but we usually manage them out so that line-level engineers don't get paranoid and jump ship.

When an EM is suddenly shifted to work on another project, or all you ICs are suddenly talking to other managers or staffed on other projects, that's us as organizations managing out the malcontent and messaging to them that their time is up.

Re: Don't become an engineering manager

#136

Post by Swizec »

democracy wrote: post #131
Swizec wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When hiring, titles are basically ignored As a hiring manager, this is completely accurate. I don't look at your title, I look at your scope . Tell me what you did, for whom, and what was the impact. That's all I care about. We all know that Senior Principal Architect Engineer at 3-person startup is somewhere around junior to mid-level at a real company. Whereas some poor schmuck at a larger company with a title li…

Interesting, you've got it absolutely the wrong way around.

> Interesting, you've got it absolutely the wrong way around.

Maybe. That's why you need to put your scope on the resume :)

I had a CTO title 15 years ago. The complexity of what we were building was a joke compared to what I own now as a lowly "tech lead manager". And in fact back then I wouldn't even be able to comprehend how complex things can get.

Re: Don't become an engineering manager

#137

Post by alephnerd »

etothet wrote: post #125

If you are reading this and you are thinking you want to become an engineering manager, I urge you to think long term what you want that to look like. I've seen too often that developers who want to become managers because they think it's the next inventible step aren't prepared for the people management and HR part of that role. And, as you move up to Director and beyond, those higher often have much less to do with…

This.

EM is a terminal position that does not own the product roadmap (Product Management) nor the underlying implementation (Staff/Principal Engineers).

They primarily own delivery and execution because orgs can't be bothered to hire program managers anymore.

If you are great at managing upwards and ensuring delivery by hook or by crook, you will make a great EM. But the next jump after EM is extremely difficult because you are competing with Principal Engineers and technical-minded PMs making a lateral move and cofounders who are being managed out by the board; and dealing with micromanaging CTOs or CPTOs.

Re: Don't become an engineering manager

#138

Post by Esophagus4 »

stronglikedan wrote: post #123
Esophagus4 wrote: post #113

In addition, I think the roles of manager and engineer will blend and management layers will flatten - companies are mostly looking for managers who code some of the time. It helps them run lean and avoid layers of management which slow down execution. As we demand more productivity out of our devs, we’ll be demanding similar efficiency gains from our managers as well, and that means they’ll need to be doing more tha…

> that means they’ll need to be doing more than just pushing paper and cheerleading That never lasts. No one can do do both and do them effectively.

I happen to agree with you entirely… but I just have this feeling things will go this way as companies put more and more cost pressure on middle management layers.

Re: Don't become an engineering manager

#139

Post by Esophagus4 »

cjblomqvist wrote: post #129
Esophagus4 wrote: post #113

In addition, I think the roles of manager and engineer will blend and management layers will flatten - companies are mostly looking for managers who code some of the time. It helps them run lean and avoid layers of management which slow down execution. As we demand more productivity out of our devs, we’ll be demanding similar efficiency gains from our managers as well, and that means they’ll need to be doing more tha…

Or, because coding is now not a bottleneck, it'll become increasingly important to ensure all your developers know what to do/achieve, and you'll need to put more effort into setting up structures, processes etc to do that. More collaboration (instead of lone wolf coder) may actually increase the need for good managers.

That could be - I hadn’t thought about it that way, actually
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