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Why No AI Games?

franklantz.substack.com

31–40 of 90 posts

Re: Why No AI Games?

#31

It’s really weird that this article walks past the 2 likely explanations and then declares them both insufficient in favor of an assertion that maybe it’s not any fun. Speculative generation is expensive and time consuming and in most cases will just be the game company writing a check to a provider every time the player does something. It’s very difficult to imagine a revenue model which allows that to make sense. E…

> Is it a possibility that talking to a chat bot is not any fun from a games per perspective?

Lots of people "roleplay" with chatbots every day and it must be fun for them or they wouldn't do it.

The problem is mostly "how do you lock an LLM into the narrative context of a more structured game"?

Having an LLM roleplay as a _specific character_ in a _specific setting_ for a long period of time is a hard problem. Even maintaining consistency writing prose for more than maybe a chapter or two's worth of text is tricky.

I don't even really think the cost problem is relevant. If a game had a kickass gameplay loop that required you to put your own open ai token in to use, people would 100% do that. Maybe that wouldn't work for a AAA game, but not even an indy game has tried it or figured it out.

Claude can write and design and play games. I know this because I hooked up a MUD to an MCP server and it built a whole world and I had other agents joining and they talked to each other and solved problems together and built their own little sections of the MUD out.

It is actually fun! I have it online if people want to play -- just sign up, wait to get approved, add your mcp to claude code and tell it to play:

https://mycorrhiza.fly.dev/

Every bit of actual game content was entirely written by ai agents with veerrrry little input from me.

Re: Why No AI Games?

#32
This has been discussed ad nauseum in other places here over the years, but basically I don't think the conclusions in the post are correct.

It does not make a whole lot of sense to let an AI determine story, whether it be dialogue, changing the game state, or whatever. The reason basically being a few things - one, the fundamental aspect of a game is that there are rules and boundaries these rules need to remain consistent (and testable). It is entirely jarring if an AI NPC that says something that's not consistent with the game state, or changes the game state in a way that violates the constraint of the understood rules/boundaries of the game - this isn't fun to the user at all, even if it sounds cool. If you do not believe me, you can test this out trying to play DND with these things and see how annoying it can become. If you decide ok, I'm going to try to tightly bind what the AI can do or not with branching and rules, you are basically engineering the same way that games have engineered already, so why even use AI? It's a solution looking for a problem here.

The second big issue is determinism - LLM's are fundamentally non-deterministic. In most games, you would expect an action to have the same or at least very similar reaction most of the time - RNG comes into play naturally already in a lot of games in a predictable way (dice rolls, chance to hit, etc.) LLM's bring nothing new to the table here.

For world gen, we already have games like No Man's Sky deterministically generate quadrillions of worlds. What help is an LLM here? We already have the technology.

One area that would be interesting, is agentic bot players, but that sort of leads down the same path as the above arguments - there already are extremely sophisticated bots that play a huge variety of games. What do LLM's bring here?

Re: Why No AI Games?

#33
post #7

For games, interacting with an LLM is an improv experience. It’s a fractal that can be explored in any direction. Video games have discrete, static goals that let a player focus on an objective. Compared to LLMs, it’s a passive experience. People play games for all sorts of reasons (to relax, competition, to build something of their own, solve challenges). I think this is a fundamentally different experience than wha…

It really depends on the style of game. There are gradations here. I think many designers are stuck in a static, controlling posture. Minecraft is an excellent and viral example of an alternative.

I dont think Minecraft is a fractal-like experience. The world may be infinite, but it repeats and each block that world is comprised of has set of rules that dont change. The living entities all follow their own rules. etc.

Re: Why No AI Games?

#34

> The video game audience has decided, almost unanimously, that they don’t want generative AI in their games. Nah, it's just a very vocal minority making lots of noise. We're slowly starting to see saner minds prevail, with steam backtracking on the ban of aigen and so on. People don't care if the end result is good. And the "but muh art" is just virtue signalling. I've used this example before, for me "art" is the f…

It's not only just signalling. I've never said anything about AI art in games before this moment, but if I become aware that a game has used it, I'm not getting that game.

Signalling means you are doing the thing only to identify yourself to others as being in the tribe. That's kind of the opposite of my personal take.

Re: Why No AI Games?

#35

> You know what’s fun? A stick. A stick is fun. A ball is fun. Having a body is fun. I think that's one reason why VR has such quick hype/death cycles--it doesn't do a good enough job of fooling your body. Conventional games induce more like a dissociative or hypnotic state where you temporarily forget your body. That can range from very, VERY abstract (like Pong or Pac-Man, or BABA IS YOU), or built on an attempt to…

I think there's a certain antipathy between "hustle culture" and gaming

https://components.news/the-gamer-and-the-nihilist/

that is is, people who are caught in AI FOMO are performatively trying to appear to be productive and that's the opposite of fun.

Re: Why No AI Games?

#36
I tried to write a different "convince an AI" game about a year ago, but it was hard to work with, hard to figure out a business-model for, and more importantly-- it just wasn't very fun to play. Maybe there's a different scenario than the one I chose.

Re: Why No AI Games?

#39

I think AI could reinvent text based games in a fresh way that would be fun. Text based games were always so constrained by what the developer could guess that you would type but with AI it really could read more like an interactive choose your own adventure novel that is easy to navigate.

I'm not so sure.

In earlier text adventures (e.g., Infocom games), some portion of those constraints were due to the authors failing to anticipate legitimate ways that users would try to phrase things and account for them in the game. But that's not nearly such a problem in anything made since the late '90s, especially if you stick to xyzzy award winners.

The more essential reason for that constraint is that it's just good storytelling. The author of a work of IF has an idea they want to explore. That main idea could be narrative (Photopia or Anchorhead), or it could be a gameplay mechanic (Savoir-Faire or Counterfeit Monkey). But in any case, if your goal is to appreciate the creator's vision, those constraints are critical because they telegraph to you, the player, what you should and should not be exploring.

This isn't an idea that's specific to text adventures, either. The creators of the Outer Wilds deliberately made areas flat and boring when there wasn't anything there for the player to do to advance the story, specifically because they didn't want players wasting time on exploration that would ultimately prove to be pointless. This is also why open world games that do go for a more uniformly detailed world also need to hand-hold the player and tell them where they need to go every step of the way. Without that players would tend to get lost, lose their sense of progress, and ultimately end up bored.

I think that, because of this dynamic, using AI to flesh out the unimportant bits of the game would be a cardinal game design sin. Making bloat cheap and easy does not make it good. I just makes more of it.

Re: Why No AI Games?

#40
I've spent way too many years chipping away at genai gaming, here's my 2c.

First, the intersection between someone who understands and cares about genai (and keeping up with the SOTA), with someone who wants to put in the work and compromise to make great games, is slim.

Think about the intersection between a procedural generation/shader programmer, someone focused on making a really fun and compelling game tech be damned. The skills don't really overlap. One requires deep knowledge, technical mastery, geometric thinking, algorithmic optimization, and time in a dark room, and the other requires empathy for humans, brutal iteration, artistic taste, and a knack for storytelling (even if just to sell the player on your game). You basically need both for your "ai game" to even qualify as an ai game. And in an industry that's so anti-ai it's hard to find teams where these two personalities meet and vibe enough to work on a game together.

Secondly, is model performance: quality, speed, cost. I don't think the industry has yet crossed the threshold where generation is high enough quality, fast enough for players, and cheap enough that it amortizes compared to traditional gamedev. You see tons of AI used in development but deploying this stuff to the front lines doesn't really napkin math. That will change though.

Third, game engines are NOT designed for genai. They are decades of optimization for a completely different pipeline, both technical and human: pitch -> publisher -> game engine -> art team + coders -> trailer -> marketing -> release -> support. Adding even simple very, very basic genai requirements to this (say, dynamic texture generation and loading over the network, streaming character dialogue) completely breaks decades of assumptions of how games are built and shipped (e.g. everything mega-super-duper-compressed and loaded to statically allocated gpu buffers). So doing anything new means throwing away large parts of the game engine. And if you pitch not using 70% of the game engine, or making your own, to a 20 year game veteran/studio boss calling the shots in this industry: well, your game will not be getting funded.

This will all get fixed though. The technology jsut came faster than the industry could adapt.

Looking forward to GDC this year!

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