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British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

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Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#131

Post by cluoma »

emptybits wrote: post #15

I'm in BC. The astro-nerd in me would have preferred to see permanent Standard Time instead of a permanent +1 offset. Instinctively, I think morning light is important to our biology for a daily reset and the solar cue of "high noon" is also a real thing. I'm sure I've read that sleep health experts have historically supported a change to permanent Standard Time, not DST. I respect there are economic arguments for pe…

I live in the Yukon so will now be in sync with BC time again after this change. The concerns about commuting to school in the dark seem almost comical, given the experiences of everybody here with the winter darkness.

For other reasons, I also wish we were closer to solar noon though. High noon is actually closer to 2pm here and seems to push the whole day back in the summer. The best (warmest) parts of the day get pushed too late into the afternoon.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#132

Post by tmp10423288442 »

lunatuna wrote: post #120
emptybits wrote: post #15

I'm in BC. The astro-nerd in me would have preferred to see permanent Standard Time instead of a permanent +1 offset. Instinctively, I think morning light is important to our biology for a daily reset and the solar cue of "high noon" is also a real thing. I'm sure I've read that sleep health experts have historically supported a change to permanent Standard Time, not DST. I respect there are economic arguments for pe…

I don't get why we just don't cut it down the middle. Go +0.5 offset and get a little bit of both. Love the idea of no one being able to do the math when talking to people outside the province. I can't tell you what time it is in mountain time, NFLD, or Saskatchewan. Nothing bad comes of it.

No one wants another Indian time zone in the world - one is already enough of a hassle to deal with.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#133

Post by glatisaint »

cf100clunk wrote: post #81

Not all of British Columbia can make the change. BC's northeast and much of the Columbia-Kootenays are presently on Mountain time, which means that the Province of Alberta holds the choice of when/whether their own and those BC areas go to a permanent time. Then AB would have to sync with Saskatchewan along their borders, but SK is already on a permanent time zone system. Decisions, decisions.

The northeast is already on permanent PDT.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#134

Post by tsoukase »

A few years ago I was against changing the time but now I tend to even suggest a full two hour change! In the developed northern hemisphere the summer/winter daylight difference is huge (about 2 hours in the morning and 2 in the night) with a short time of equal length. Maximizing sunlight exposure while the people are outside is vital, mainly for psychological purposes. That means let the light begin at about 7-8 all year long and let summer afternoon extend as much as possible. No kid leaves home before 8 and the 6-in-the-morning drivers will pay attention all year long and not only during the winter. But all types of people will enjoy the long summer afternoons.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#135

Post by sdevonoes »

shagie wrote: post #114
scythe wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thankfully, this is a situation we don't need to speculate about without evidence. Spain is on de facto permanent DST, serving as a natural experiment. I bet the results support you.

That's partly because it's in the same timezone as Poland. Madrid is further west that London, but London is an hour behind. Moving Spain to permanent DST puts it on the same effective timezone as London. http://blog.poormansmath.net/images/SolarTimeVsStandardTime.... Without the DST offset, Spain much more "red" than England. It's not so much a "permeant DST" but rather a "we want to change to GMT without moving out…

In Poland in winter it gets dark around 3 PM. Awful. In Spain in winter it gets dark around 5:45 pm. And people wonder why spaniards live longer.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#136

Post by 1718627440 »

sailingparrot wrote: post #119
bluebarbet wrote: post #106

This question IMO reveals how the abstraction of numbers can imprison our minds. It literally makes no sense to say, "I prefer to have an extra hour in the evening" (the morning and evening will always have equal numbers of hours). Or "I hate it when it's dark at 5pm" (translation: "I hate when it's dark at 5 arbitrary periods after an arbitrary moment that may be hours either side of solar noon"). My solution: pick…

> This question IMO reveals how the abstraction of numbers can imprison our minds. Is it the abstraction of number that imprison our mind or just the reality of having a job and other social constraint based on all of us agreeing on a time? When most people can’t leave their job before 5pm, wether it’s dark at 5 or 6 makes a huge difference.

The social construct is moving later though. I guess this is because people's desire to sleep longer is making them move the social constraint of being at work later, while they stay up "partying" regardless of the social constraint.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#137

Post by bluebarbet »

frotaur wrote: post #123
bluebarbet wrote: post #106

This question IMO reveals how the abstraction of numbers can imprison our minds. It literally makes no sense to say, "I prefer to have an extra hour in the evening" (the morning and evening will always have equal numbers of hours). Or "I hate it when it's dark at 5pm" (translation: "I hate when it's dark at 5 arbitrary periods after an arbitrary moment that may be hours either side of solar noon"). My solution: pick…

In a world where there isn't work schedule and in general the whole of society's schedule which works around the arbitrary time, I agree with you.

Sure. But this argument is surely less powerful than it was back in the era of church bells and big clocks on factory walls and so on. We now have electronics that add a whole new layer of abstraction to our schedules, to the point that you can now miss a DST change if you're not paying attention. For many people (I'm one) this change is now just a useless irritation.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#138

Post by lamontcg »

frotaur wrote: post #123
bluebarbet wrote: post #106

This question IMO reveals how the abstraction of numbers can imprison our minds. It literally makes no sense to say, "I prefer to have an extra hour in the evening" (the morning and evening will always have equal numbers of hours). Or "I hate it when it's dark at 5pm" (translation: "I hate when it's dark at 5 arbitrary periods after an arbitrary moment that may be hours either side of solar noon"). My solution: pick…

In a world where there isn't work schedule and in general the whole of society's schedule which works around the arbitrary time, I agree with you.

So adjust the work schedule.

If people want more time in the evening, get up earlier and go to work and go home earlier.

You can even shift school/work schedules throughout the year.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#139

Post by 1718627440 »

layer8 wrote: post #110
bryanlarsen wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Optimizing for summer is silly. Summer gets lots of daylight already. We need to optimize for winter.

People disagree on whether to prioritize mornings or afternoons in the winter. For the summer, only very few people care if the sun rises at four or five (or whatever), but most people like having long summer evenings. Therefore the summer tips the scales.

Then they are also social activities that you just need to wait for in summer, because they can only happen after sunset. Viewing a movie (outside), sitting around a fire, having a party all just really happen after sunset.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#140

Post by 1718627440 »

karlosvomacka wrote: post #103
jonny_eh wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's "standard" for a reason. Humanity settled on these numbers long ago because they work best. It boggles my mind why anyone would choose otherwise since what we do at any given hour is arbitrary.

the reason was valid 50 years ago when most people didn't work 9-5 in front of a computer.

Yeah they started work at 6. So the working schedule shifted later by three hours, but with year-long DST it will shift back only one hour. Sounds like people don't actually want what they now vote for. My bet is that the work hours will just move later yet another hour in the future.
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