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British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

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Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#121

Post by dylan604 »

zetanor wrote: post #31
emptybits wrote: post #15

I'm in BC. The astro-nerd in me would have preferred to see permanent Standard Time instead of a permanent +1 offset. Instinctively, I think morning light is important to our biology for a daily reset and the solar cue of "high noon" is also a real thing. I'm sure I've read that sleep health experts have historically supported a change to permanent Standard Time, not DST. I respect there are economic arguments for pe…

I've seen arguments about kids going to school in the darkness being thrown around a lot, but I've never understood why that (against fresh drivers) is always taken to be worse than kids coming home in the darkness (against exhausted drivers).

> (against fresh drivers)

How many people roll out of bed, rush out the door and jump in the car before they're actually awake? In my circles, that would be a larger percentage that of those that get up with plenty of time to wake up. I'm not sure any time of the day is safer regarding attentive drivers. Especially if we're going to consider idiots on their phones while driving.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#122

Post by [deleted] »

emptybits wrote: post #15

I'm in BC. The astro-nerd in me would have preferred to see permanent Standard Time instead of a permanent +1 offset. Instinctively, I think morning light is important to our biology for a daily reset and the solar cue of "high noon" is also a real thing. I'm sure I've read that sleep health experts have historically supported a change to permanent Standard Time, not DST. I respect there are economic arguments for pe…

[deleted]

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#123

Post by frotaur »

bluebarbet wrote: post #106

This question IMO reveals how the abstraction of numbers can imprison our minds. It literally makes no sense to say, "I prefer to have an extra hour in the evening" (the morning and evening will always have equal numbers of hours). Or "I hate it when it's dark at 5pm" (translation: "I hate when it's dark at 5 arbitrary periods after an arbitrary moment that may be hours either side of solar noon"). My solution: pick…

In a world where there isn't work schedule and in general the whole of society's schedule which works around the arbitrary time, I agree with you.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#124

Post by denkmoon »

loloquwowndueo wrote: post #116
zetanor wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen arguments about kids going to school in the darkness being thrown around a lot, but I've never understood why that (against fresh drivers) is always taken to be worse than kids coming home in the darkness (against exhausted drivers).

> kids coming home in the darkness (against exhausted drivers). If you’re exhausted you shouldn’t be driving. Period. You’re the danger to kids, not light or darkness. (Your headlights are in working order, right?)

Nice sentiment, sadly we live in the real world

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#125

Post by 1718627440 »

dylan604 wrote: post #121
zetanor wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen arguments about kids going to school in the darkness being thrown around a lot, but I've never understood why that (against fresh drivers) is always taken to be worse than kids coming home in the darkness (against exhausted drivers).

> (against fresh drivers) How many people roll out of bed, rush out the door and jump in the car before they're actually awake? In my circles, that would be a larger percentage that of those that get up with plenty of time to wake up. I'm not sure any time of the day is safer regarding attentive drivers. Especially if we're going to consider idiots on their phones while driving.

There is still a typical morning routine of an hour. How long do people need to wake up? If they are chronically tired is this going to get better through out the day?

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#126

Post by seanmcdirmid »

fc417fc802 wrote: post #80
esoltys wrote: post #35

Why now? From the Govt of BC press release: "The Interpretation Amendment Act, which is the legal framework that enables the Province to adopt permanent DST, became law in 2019. At the time, government chose not to bring it into force in order to co-ordinate timing with neighbouring U.S. states in the same time zone. Recent actions from the U.S. have shifted how B.C. approaches decisions that merit alignment, includi…

Notably Washington state legislated the same change to DST years ago (instead of standard time, the morons!) but the federal government never approved the switch. AFAIK it's still pending. I remain unclear what authority the federal government has over such a matter and why Washington (or any other) state has opted to respect it. What are they going to do if a state just ignores them and switches their clocks? Someti…

It is crazy, because there is actually a law that allows us to switch to year round PST if we want (but no one wants that), while we need congressional approval to switch to PDT year round (which is what everyone wants) and the house voted for it, but the senate simply didn't make it a priority.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#127

Post by 1718627440 »

shagie wrote: post #114
scythe wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thankfully, this is a situation we don't need to speculate about without evidence. Spain is on de facto permanent DST, serving as a natural experiment. I bet the results support you.

That's partly because it's in the same timezone as Poland. Madrid is further west that London, but London is an hour behind. Moving Spain to permanent DST puts it on the same effective timezone as London. http://blog.poormansmath.net/images/SolarTimeVsStandardTime.... Without the DST offset, Spain much more "red" than England. It's not so much a "permeant DST" but rather a "we want to change to GMT without moving out…

That map is interesting, so most of the world prefers "red" to "green"? Why is that?

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#129

Post by bena »

scythe wrote: post #74
emptybits wrote: post #15

I'm in BC. The astro-nerd in me would have preferred to see permanent Standard Time instead of a permanent +1 offset. Instinctively, I think morning light is important to our biology for a daily reset and the solar cue of "high noon" is also a real thing. I'm sure I've read that sleep health experts have historically supported a change to permanent Standard Time, not DST. I respect there are economic arguments for pe…

Thankfully, this is a situation we don't need to speculate about without evidence. Spain is on de facto permanent DST, serving as a natural experiment. I bet the results support you.

Spain instead adjusted it's entire country around the time.

And they still do DST. They're just on a different time zone than they should be because during WWII, they changed to the same time zone as Germany.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#130

Post by bryanlarsen »

exmadscientist wrote: post #112
bluGill wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far north as BC is winter just doesn't have enough daylight to think you can get everything done with sunlight. Maybe Arizona has enough - but they don't do daylight savings time (one of two us states)

> winter just doesn't have enough daylight to think you can get everything done with sunlight That's the perfect way to say it. The other piece that a lot of people are missing is the whole larks (early risers) vs owls (late risers) divide. I think the best illustration of that is to ask, if you got your pick, which shift you'd take, based solely on your own body and habits: 8-4, 9-5, or 10-6 (or perhaps even further…

My guess is that both owls & larks get their preference logically backwards.

My guess is that owls will say they prefer permanent daylight time and larks will say they prefer permanent standard time.

But their revealed preference is the opposite -- owls wake up well after sunrise and go to bed well after sunset. Yet permanent daylight time will shift it so they'll be waking up closer to sunrise and going to bed closer to sunset.

Larks revealed preference is more like permanent daylight time yet I think they're more likely to say they want permanent standard time.

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