British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time • Hacker News Board

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#51

Post by bryanlarsen » Mon, Mar 02, 2026, 9:47 PM UTC

sorenjan wrote: post #44

bryanlarsen wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a myth. Farmers have to wake up early because their animals wake up at sunrise and some tasks are best performed at that time. So they wake up before sunrise regardless of the clock time. Human, like farm animals, are better off if they wake up at sunrise and go to sleep in full dark. At the equator that's easy, wake at 6, bed at 10PM. And standard work hours are 7-3 or 8-4.

Right, but where I live sunrise is in the middle of the night in the summer (around 03:30). Using standard time in the summer gives me one less hour of useful sunlight in the evening, and while it doesn't technically disappear it gets moved to where I can't use it because that's when I sleep. It's the same for people further south as well, another bright hour in the early morning before they wake up is a wasted brigh…

Optimizing for summer is silly. Summer gets lots of daylight already. We need to optimize for winter.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#52

Post by 1718627440 » Mon, Mar 02, 2026, 9:48 PM UTC

WalterGR wrote: post #14

bryanlarsen wrote: post #6

I would have preferred permanent standard time to permanent daylight time. But I accept I'm in the minority, and even permanent daylight time is far superior to changing clocks twice a year.

> I would have preferred permanent standard time to permanent daylight time. Do you have children? In past HN threads, the preference largely comes down to whether you have children (and want more early morning light for safer trips to school) or not.

Where I live, in winter it's dark in the morning (and also the evening depending on the length of the school day) with and without DST, and in summer the sun is also up either way.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#53

Post by wat10000 » Mon, Mar 02, 2026, 9:49 PM UTC

jonny_eh wrote: post #10

bryanlarsen wrote: post #6

I would have preferred permanent standard time to permanent daylight time. But I accept I'm in the minority, and even permanent daylight time is far superior to changing clocks twice a year.

It's "standard" for a reason. Humanity settled on these numbers long ago because they work best. It boggles my mind why anyone would choose otherwise since what we do at any given hour is arbitrary.

Not that long ago, and we keep fiddling with them. The US time zones were adopted just over a century ago. The dates for daylight saving time were changed less than 20 years ago. Much of Western Europe changed time zones (much of it rather violently) in the 1940s, as did China. The tz database often requires updates for changes.

If you want to go with what was settled long ago, that would probably be a return to each town observing its own time based on local solar noon, which would be pretty annoying.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#54

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Mar 02, 2026, 9:51 PM UTC

bryanlarsen wrote: post #40

zetanor wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen arguments about kids going to school in the darkness being thrown around a lot, but I've never understood why that (against fresh drivers) is always taken to be worse than kids coming home in the darkness (against exhausted drivers).

Average school start/end times in BC are 8:30 AM and 3 PM. Standard time in Vancouver puts sunrise/sunset at 8AM/415PM at winter solstice for standard time. That's 30 minutes of daylight before school and 75 minutes after school. IOW, kids are more likely to be walking in the dark in the morning, even with standard time. Switching to daylight time will switch sunrise/sunset to 9AM/515PM, guaranteeing kids will be wal…

[deleted]

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#55

Post by 1718627440 » Mon, Mar 02, 2026, 9:52 PM UTC

sorenjan wrote: post #44

bryanlarsen wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a myth. Farmers have to wake up early because their animals wake up at sunrise and some tasks are best performed at that time. So they wake up before sunrise regardless of the clock time. Human, like farm animals, are better off if they wake up at sunrise and go to sleep in full dark. At the equator that's easy, wake at 6, bed at 10PM. And standard work hours are 7-3 or 8-4.

Right, but where I live sunrise is in the middle of the night in the summer (around 03:30). Using standard time in the summer gives me one less hour of useful sunlight in the evening, and while it doesn't technically disappear it gets moved to where I can't use it because that's when I sleep. It's the same for people further south as well, another bright hour in the early morning before they wake up is a wasted brigh…

But the social construct of work hours shifted later by more than that one hour during the last century, so this is not what people actually prefer by their actions.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#56

Post by wat10000 » Mon, Mar 02, 2026, 9:52 PM UTC

1718627440 wrote: post #49

Gimpei wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d guess that there is less of a need for light at the beginning of the day since most people don’t farm. Personally I prefer more light at the end of the day.

I don't get that argument. The numeric time is just a measure for the state of the sun in the sky. When you choose your day to have ended is completely independent. There is already a high enough variance of people deciding when they go to sleep, that DST is hardly relevant. Some people have dinner at half past 5, some do at half past 8, the hour daylight saving time can't possibly make that difference.

It's not just a measure for the state of sun in the sky, it's also a measure for the state of society on the ground. It's an arbitrary number in a sense, but it also strongly influences my schedule.

And yes, we could have all the schools and everything else open later in the winter than the rest of the year, but it turns out it's easier to change the clocks.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#57

Post by PieTime » Mon, Mar 02, 2026, 9:53 PM UTC

MoonWalk wrote: post #50

ternus wrote: post #48

Almost nowhere do you see the sun directly overhead at noon, even during Standard Time. The differences can be quite stark: https://24timezones.com/cms-static/images/uploads/solartimev... BC (and PST) is actually quite reasonable in this regard, with Vancouver and LA being fairly close to "on the money." Contrast that with China and Russia, where clock time can be 2h+ off from solar time. As a further note, this is o…

Maybe, but Standard time is still closer to "correct." "Daylight Savings" time never made sense. Why are we "saving daylight" when there's more of it?

Save it in the evening, it was always dark in the morning.

Historically we were saving daylight for the morning

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#58

Post by bryanlarsen » Mon, Mar 02, 2026, 9:54 PM UTC

bryanlarsen wrote: post #40

zetanor wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen arguments about kids going to school in the darkness being thrown around a lot, but I've never understood why that (against fresh drivers) is always taken to be worse than kids coming home in the darkness (against exhausted drivers).

Average school start/end times in BC are 8:30 AM and 3 PM. Standard time in Vancouver puts sunrise/sunset at 8AM/415PM at winter solstice for standard time. That's 30 minutes of daylight before school and 75 minutes after school. IOW, kids are more likely to be walking in the dark in the morning, even with standard time. Switching to daylight time will switch sunrise/sunset to 9AM/515PM, guaranteeing kids will be wal…

P.S.

Switching to daylight time makes more sense in Eastern BC than it does in Western BC. But Eastern BC is relatively unpopulated. The population of Penticton is 40,000 vs 3,000,000 in metro Vancouver. Second largest metro (Victoria) is west of Vancouver.

Penticton experiences sunrise/sunset about 25 minutes before Vancouver, so their kids experience approximately equal amounts of sun before & after school on the winter solstice.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#59

Post by MOSI2 » Mon, Mar 02, 2026, 9:54 PM UTC

I fully support removing DST (as a parent at least, it's a PITA twice a year).

However, clocks should show noon correctly, as best as they can within your chosen timezone. Also, I really like long evenings in the summer to get outdoors and go biking or hiking. It follows that we should abolish DST, stick to the correct time, and move regular school and business hours back one hour.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#60

Post by prmoustache » Mon, Mar 02, 2026, 9:54 PM UTC

1718627440 wrote: post #49

Gimpei wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d guess that there is less of a need for light at the beginning of the day since most people don’t farm. Personally I prefer more light at the end of the day.

I don't get that argument. The numeric time is just a measure for the state of the sun in the sky. When you choose your day to have ended is completely independent. There is already a high enough variance of people deciding when they go to sleep, that DST is hardly relevant. Some people have dinner at half past 5, some do at half past 8, the hour daylight saving time can't possibly make that difference.

Exactly, here in Spain we have lunch between half past 2 and half past 3 on workdays, which can extend up to 5pm in the weekend and I usually finish dinner at half past ten.

Why? because they decided to be on the same timezone as our eastern neighbors in Europe. The eastern part of Polonia is on the same timezone and probably have probably the opposite with much much earlier lunch and dinner than we do.