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Setting up phones is a nightmare

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Re: Setting up phones is a nightmare

#231

Post by roryirvine »

eloisant wrote: post #185
pibaker wrote: post #118

I am an iPhone user myself, but the number of "this is an android problem" and "just use iPhone" in response to the author's complaints surprises me. I thought HN was more anti apple in the past? Maybe we are all old now and tinkering with our devices is out of fashion, but this doesn't make the author's complaints illegitimate. And if we zoom out a bit, iPhones are only 20% of the global phone market. The overwhelmi…

HN is mostly US and apparently in US even geeks have given up on Android. Anyway, here is my experience when I upgraded from a Pixel 8 to Pixel 10 Pro: login to my Google account, let the backup restore happen then my new phone was identical to the old one. I only had to do the login process to a few messaging apps like Signal or WhatsApp, and my home settings on Smart Launcher had to be manually imported but that's…

Yeah, and it's been like that for years - the past decade, at least.

I've had a couple of Nexuses, a few of the Pixels, with a Nokia in the mix too. Never any problem - just log in, wait a few mins for the apps to automatically install and the data to backup/restore (which, iirc, happens over local wifi rather than going through the cloud). The last upgrade included a separate work profile managed by MS Intune, and that was also smoothly handled by the upgrade process.

Yes, Whatsapp chat history has to be handled separately (as others have mentioned) because of the e2e encryption. The only other thing that needs doing is confirming that I want Firefox as my default browser when I first run it. Otherwise, it's all completely hands-off.

Re: Setting up phones is a nightmare

#232

Post by winterbloom »

eMPee584 wrote: post #204
winterbloom wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

who do you think gets in trouble if her phone dies and all her stuff is gone storing things in the cloud is responsible

local backups is responsible

yeah you might do that, but how many non-technical people can be bothered to do so?

Re: Setting up phones is a nightmare

#233

Post by bigyabai »

latexr wrote: post #86
bigyabai wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if you can't refute me. I don't think my comment is controversial among most iPhone owners, it's only the hardcore ecosystem enthusiasts that debate it. Most people really do treat their iPhone and iPad like a set-top box or games console; it's the minority who rely on it for work. A passionate minority, certainly, but nowhere near the market share Windows and ChromeOS carved out. iOS and iPadOS compete from the…

> Only if you can't refute me. You have been refuted. Repeatedly. But as you yourself have said, you double down on disagreements. So I understand why you have been called a troll. > it's only the hardcore ecosystem enthusiasts that debate it. That’s not true at all. Case in point, I don’t care for phones. What I did care for was your exaggerated rhetoric. As someone who is critical of Tim Cook and modern-day Apple (…

My tone has been consistent the entire time; people want iOS devices because they're toys.

In the overwhelming majority of all professional niches that exists, iOS does not compete for any market share. It is not obsoleting anything, anecdotally and statistically.

Any questions? Or do you have proof that macOS and Windows are genuinely threatened by iOS?

Re: Setting up phones is a nightmare

#234

Post by azuanrb »

mannanj wrote: post #228
azuanrb wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my country, we do. For starters, we use apps for authentication and notifications. We can debate whether web push is viable, but most banking apps simply do not rely on it. As for older people, I would rather they use an app than a website because it is far too easy to fall victim to phishing attacks, no matter how much we educate them.

OK continuing to play Devil's advocate: In my country my mom fell to a sophisticated spear phishing attack and whilst on the phone with the scammer and he leveraged her app's login to make it easier and more convenient to attempt to send her money via Zelle. I wonder if there's really evidence to support that the app's protect you from phishing attacks. I personally think notifications suck and are spam and not neede…

I’m not sure about the formal evidence, but to me it’s quite straightforward. I installed the official banking apps on my parents’ phones and told them to use only those apps for banking. Nothing else.

If they use a website, they might mistype the URL or click on a fake link. They don’t really use bookmarks either. Even if they manage to reach the correct site or add it to their home screen, they still have to log in again each time they use it. The app removes all of that—they just tap one icon. Passkeys may improve web security, but they still have a long way to go for non-technical users.

Notification sucks, but overall I’m still in favor of it until we have something better. I’ve had to replace my credit card a few times due to fraud cases, and the same happened to my parents. Because we get instant notifications for every transaction or authentication attempt, we know immediately if something suspicious happens. That’s not really possible with web push, especially since our banks don’t support it.

Authentication is much better in the app as well. In the past, banks would ask lots of personal questions over the phone, which I’m no longer comfortable answering unless I made the call myself. With the app, the account is tied to one device, and biometric login makes it easy and secure. Any approval happens inside the app, which feels safer.

App is definitely not perfect, but for the majority of people (non-tech), it's just a lot easier and (unfortunately) safer for them.

Re: Setting up phones is a nightmare

#235

Post by NetMageSCW »

sonofhans wrote: post #8

“Phones” in the title is doing lots of heavy lifting. “Android phones” is the key missing piece. I love Free software too, and I wish I could run more of my life on it, but it’s no longer my hobby. I like cars, too, but I don’t work on a hobby car. The author’s experience is why I use proprietary stuff like Apple for these parts of my life. A new Apple device is usually a non-event: charge it, authenticate, wait for…

I find it hard to believe that almost 20 years after copying iPhone, Google still hasn’t figured out how to do backups properly for simple phone migration. What happens if your Android phone is stolen or destroyed?

(It reminds me of the major car manufacturers ignoring what Tesla saw as vital - having a reliable trustworthy easy to use charging network was as important as the BEV itself.)

Re: Setting up phones is a nightmare

#236

Post by NetMageSCW »

recursive wrote: post #115
II2II wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I use proprietary stuff like Apple for these parts of my life. A new Apple device is usually a non-event: charge it, authenticate, wait for the back to restore while you go about your business. Most of the author's criticisms were centered on avoiding account creation and third-party apps. I'm not sure I would give Apple the benefit of the doubt here since the motivations are different: Apple is far more interested…

I've used Android phones for a long time. A couple of years ago I got an iPad to run an app only available on iOS. Getting that iPad running was more painful and frustrating than any of the dozen Android devices I've set up over the years.

That sounds like Linux users complaining about Windows Server or vice versa. iPad is trivial to get running but it is not the same as an Android tablet, and if you try to use your Android experience you will have issues.

Re: Setting up phones is a nightmare

#237

Post by ilvez »

halapro wrote: post #201
ilvez wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

lol I even didn't know that I couldn't use Firefox in iPhone. Does this really fly in EU as well? How?

By law third party engines are allowed since like 2024, geoblocked to the EU, but I haven't seen any news of browsers actually doing that. I think a number of other countries are starting to enforce that, like South Korea or Japan.

Oh yeah, now I recall.. Fx in ios is just a shell

Re: Setting up phones is a nightmare

#238

Post by skybrian »

Paria_Stark wrote: post #198
skybrian wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But I thought sideloading wasn't a real problem and Google is just locking it down because they're evil :-)

It's always crazy to me to see this kind of smug takes defending huge corporations as if they're your friends. It's not all good or bad, there's a security issue with side loading, as well as shovelware on the play store. However, there is no world where I would argue that these justify limiting consumer grade hardware to walled gardens.

It's less about defending and more about being annoyed with all the over-confident, uninformed opinions people frequently post in reaction to any news article on the subject.

Re: Setting up phones is a nightmare

#239

Post by timedude »

gib444 wrote: post #205
timedude wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are various options, but if you use syncthing, it is as easy as creating a share on your PC or backup machine and on the phone. Everything gets synced automatically.

> Everything gets synced automatically That's not true though, is it? "Everything" kind of implies an iPhone-style backup. You can't do that without root AIUI Maybe you can give us more details about how you achieve a full up-and-running restore "in minutes"? I run GrapheneOS so very interested. (Syncthing for Android is deprecated, too)

Well everything you chose to sync gets synced. Like photos, documents etc. You can also set up apps in such a way where they make automatic local backups on your phone in the folder that gets synced. There are multiple android apps for syncthing

Re: Setting up phones is a nightmare

#240

Post by LtWorf »

pibaker wrote: post #118

I am an iPhone user myself, but the number of "this is an android problem" and "just use iPhone" in response to the author's complaints surprises me. I thought HN was more anti apple in the past? Maybe we are all old now and tinkering with our devices is out of fashion, but this doesn't make the author's complaints illegitimate. And if we zoom out a bit, iPhones are only 20% of the global phone market. The overwhelmi…

iPhones are only 20% but in USA they are much popular, and most people here will be from USA and will have disposable income working as software developers.
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