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Mondrian Entered the Public Domain. The Estate Disagrees

copyrightlately.com

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Re: Mondrian Entered the Public Domain. The Estate Disagrees

#21

Post by input_sh »

bonzini wrote: post #6

I read "The duration of the U.S. protection for all other works… was for 70 years from the artist’s date of death" and thought wow, did Mondrian really live into the 1960s or so? Next paragraph: "Mondrian died in 1944. Any of his works subject to a life-plus-70 regime would have entered the public domain" 10 years ago. Who even thought of including that in a legal argument??

Life + 70 has always been an oversimplification, we still haven't even reached 70 years since the introduction of these rules (1973 in the US, in other countries depends on when the US strogarmed them into adopting similar rules).

There's all sorts of quirks for anything published before that rule got standardised more-or-less worldwide, but in general 1930-1945 is still like a legal grey area that can be challenged in court and you should be good to go for anything published before that. And don't get me even started on posthumous publications, that's a whole different can of worms where a family member might claim some contribution (like for example Anne Frank's father), pushing the copyright further to the life of the author + life of that family member + 70.

Re: Mondrian Entered the Public Domain. The Estate Disagrees

#22

Post by Someone »

masfuerte wrote: post #13
Someone wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

based on your comment (the site is unresponsive, so I cannot check what exactly it says) I think the article is incorrect. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_law_of_the_United_St... : “For works published or registered before 1978, the maximum copyright duration is 95 years from the date of publication, if copyright was renewed during the 28th year following publication. Copyright renewal has been automatic sinc…

You quote a section about unpublished work. The painting was published nearly a hundred years ago so the quote isn't relevant. If you think the article is wrong please state how.

I don’t see that. “For works published or registered before 1978, the maximum copyright duration is 95 years from the date of publication, if copyright was renewed during the 28th year following publication” may not apply here, but if so, it isn’t because the work was published.

Re: Mondrian Entered the Public Domain. The Estate Disagrees

#23

Post by brookst »

boomlinde wrote: post #20
simonh wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Creators pay tax on their income. We all get legal protections for our property.

Real property owners also pay tax on their income. Income is taxed. Real property is taxed. Intellectual property is not.

IP is next to impossible to appraise, unlike land.

It’s pretty easy to ballpark what a lot of house or office building is worth based on comparables that sold recently. IP doesn’t sell that much and comparisons are harder.

Re: Mondrian Entered the Public Domain. The Estate Disagrees

#24

Post by kibwen »

edent wrote: post #16
theragra wrote: post #2

As always, copyright is a supressor of creativity, not an enabler. Copyright terms should be 10-20 years max, or up to death of an author. Even current regime is ridiculous.

"Up to death" would provide a perverse incentive for people to kill creators in order to liberate something from copyright.

Taking the death date into account is literally already how prevailing copyright law works. You can just make it conditional on publish date.

Re: Mondrian Entered the Public Domain. The Estate Disagrees

#25

Post by simonh »

boomlinde wrote: post #20
simonh wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Creators pay tax on their income. We all get legal protections for our property.

Real property owners also pay tax on their income. Income is taxed. Real property is taxed. Intellectual property is not.

I'm in the UK. Simply owning land does not incur taxes here, we don't have land value taxes. You pay capital gains tax on profits selling land. There are annual taxes on buildings such as council taxes on houses, specifically to pay for municipal services, but not generally on land.

If I make goods I'm not taxed for owning them, only if I earn income from the sale or use of those goods.

Re: Mondrian Entered the Public Domain. The Estate Disagrees

#26

Post by closewith »

brookst wrote: post #23
boomlinde wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Real property owners also pay tax on their income. Income is taxed. Real property is taxed. Intellectual property is not.

IP is next to impossible to appraise, unlike land. It’s pretty easy to ballpark what a lot of house or office building is worth based on comparables that sold recently. IP doesn’t sell that much and comparisons are harder.

This is actually a solved problem. It is self-assessed valuation with compulsory sale at declared value, known as the Harberger Tax.

Re: Mondrian Entered the Public Domain. The Estate Disagrees

#27

Post by closewith »

simonh wrote: post #25
boomlinde wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Real property owners also pay tax on their income. Income is taxed. Real property is taxed. Intellectual property is not.

I'm in the UK. Simply owning land does not incur taxes here, we don't have land value taxes. You pay capital gains tax on profits selling land. There are annual taxes on buildings such as council taxes on houses, specifically to pay for municipal services, but not generally on land. If I make goods I'm not taxed for owning them, only if I earn income from the sale or use of those goods.

There are some analogues of a land tax in the UK. Council tax for residential property, rates for businesses, and the upcoming mansion tax.

Re: Mondrian Entered the Public Domain. The Estate Disagrees

#28

Post by tacticalturtle »

B1FF_PSUVM wrote: post #3
theragra wrote: post #2

As always, copyright is a supressor of creativity, not an enabler. Copyright terms should be 10-20 years max, or up to death of an author. Even current regime is ridiculous.

It's rather incongruous that you register intellectual property for very little - and have states enforcing your rights for free - while a piece of land pays property taxes.

The state isn’t enforcing your rights for free - you still have to hire a lawyer and pay legal expenses yourself.

The state is just providing the infrastructure where you are allowed to make a claim, if you choose to do so.

This is like complaining that businesses get to use roads for free - ignoring that we all pay taxes already and built this infrastructure for enabling exactly that purpose.

Re: Mondrian Entered the Public Domain. The Estate Disagrees

#29

Post by benj111 »

edent wrote: post #16
theragra wrote: post #2

As always, copyright is a supressor of creativity, not an enabler. Copyright terms should be 10-20 years max, or up to death of an author. Even current regime is ridiculous.

"Up to death" would provide a perverse incentive for people to kill creators in order to liberate something from copyright.

TBF there's currently a massive perverse incentive in that we want to encourage creators to create, but then allow the successful ones to retire making money from past works.

Re: Mondrian Entered the Public Domain. The Estate Disagrees

#30

Post by edent »

kibwen wrote: post #24
edent wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Up to death" would provide a perverse incentive for people to kill creators in order to liberate something from copyright.

Taking the death date into account is literally already how prevailing copyright law works. You can just make it conditional on publish date.

Sure, but Life + 70 means it is unlikely that anyone will benefit from the death soon.
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