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Waymo blocking ambulance during deadly Austin shooting

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Re: Waymo blocking ambulance during deadly Austin shooting

#51

Post by noduerme »

ibejoeb wrote: post #30
dangero wrote: post #14

The problem we will encounter with self driving cars is that while they will make less mistakes than humans, they will make different mistakes. Humans will continue to have a hard time accepting this tradeoff. I live in LA where Waymos are now on every street. My experience is that they don’t respect human courtesy, so for example if I need to cross a lane of busy traffic, a human may brake as a courtesy to let me th…

That courtesy is almost always bad practice and is generally unlawful. You must yield right of way to a pedestrian at a legal crossing, but california has codes that prohibit impeding normal traffic flow, including stopping in the street to wave across a pedestrian where there is no such crossing. It's especially dangerous on multi-lane roads because the stopped vehicle can blind the pedestrian to other traffic.

I think the comment you're responding to was referring to needing to cross a backed up lane of traffic in their car, not on foot.

Re: Waymo blocking ambulance during deadly Austin shooting

#52

Post by glennpratt »

tapoxi wrote: post #22
mxfh wrote: post #8

Cars block the street all the time, there is ample place to pass the waymo car on the left in the opposing lane, yet those SUV driving humans don't care to move out of the way either, and police just blocks the maneuver area too. That silver car in the front could also just pass in front and make space. Situational awareness has room to be improved for a lot of entities in this short video. Nueces Street is 3 and hal…

You can arrest a driver for not making space for an emergency vehicle. Who do we arrest here?

Nobody gets arrested, you get a ticket.

Re: Waymo blocking ambulance during deadly Austin shooting

#53

Post by [deleted] »

NewJazz wrote: post #18
dangero wrote: post #14

The problem we will encounter with self driving cars is that while they will make less mistakes than humans, they will make different mistakes. Humans will continue to have a hard time accepting this tradeoff. I live in LA where Waymos are now on every street. My experience is that they don’t respect human courtesy, so for example if I need to cross a lane of busy traffic, a human may brake as a courtesy to let me th…

Humans will continue to have a hard time accepting this tradeoff. Are you asserting that humans should accept these, currently not fully known, tradeoffs?

[deleted]

Re: Waymo blocking ambulance during deadly Austin shooting

#54

Post by zephen »

AdrianB1 wrote: post #20
prhn wrote: post #7

At the risk of sounding ignorant, why didn't the various police cruisers and even the ambulance itself just push the damn thing out of the way? That's what the push bars attached to the front of their vehicles are for.

Ambulances can be seriously damaged by attempting to do it. Police cruisers can do it, but then they may be sued for damages. I know that cars blocking fire hydrants were a serious problem in the past and owners sued firemen for pulling water hoses through their cars after breaking the windows - the law was not allowing it even if the line through the car was the only option.

> owners sued firemen for pulling water hoses through their cars after breaking the windows - the law was not allowing it even if the line through the car was the only option.

I'll bet anything you have no citation for this.

Sovereign immunity and necessity combine to make sure that firefighters and cops can do whatever the fuck is required.

The aftermath is even more brutal. You will receive multiple tickets for this, you will receive a bill for damages to the hose they had to thread through your windows (or to the police car that rammed you out of the way), and your car insurance will point to a clause in their policy that says that you are personally on the hook for all of this.

You may even face civil or even criminal liability for any damages to whatever is on fire, or loss of life, that a good prosecutor or plaintiff's lawyer can convince a jury is directly traceable to your egregious conduct in parking your precious car in front of the damn fire hydrant.

Re: Waymo blocking ambulance during deadly Austin shooting

#57

Post by rogerrogerr »

ikiris wrote: post #55
Janicc wrote: post #50

This comment section surely would look the same if it had been a Tesla, right?

Since teslas have drivers.... no?

Heisenberg's Tesla - if it is doing something good, it has a driver. If it is doing something bad, it's autonomous.

Re: Waymo blocking ambulance during deadly Austin shooting

#58

Post by afavour »

majormajor wrote: post #26
afavour wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does “statistics of the environment” mean in this context? How can fewer deaths on the road not be a win?

I think they're getting at something like this: If self-driving cars resulted in dramatically more miles-traveled-in-car per person they could be safer per-mile and more efficient per-mile while making some important total outcomes worse. Relevant to this example: if people travel by car more because they care less about traffic when they're playing video games or on TikTok during it, instead of driving, overall cong…

That’s fair but I think it’s kind of orthogonal to the original point.

As is already the case in cities with robust public transit systems you’d need to make sure you’re applying the right incentives (i.e. taxes and charges) to make sure people are making decisions that benefit everyone. That doesn’t alter the possibility of self driving cars being much safer than human driven ones.

Re: Waymo blocking ambulance during deadly Austin shooting

#59

Post by ibejoeb »

rfrey wrote: post #39
ibejoeb wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That courtesy is almost always bad practice and is generally unlawful. You must yield right of way to a pedestrian at a legal crossing, but california has codes that prohibit impeding normal traffic flow, including stopping in the street to wave across a pedestrian where there is no such crossing. It's especially dangerous on multi-lane roads because the stopped vehicle can blind the pedestrian to other traffic.

In many places, traffic would not function if drivers did not e.g. make space for other drivers to change lanes. It's an extraordinary claim to say such behaviour is bad practice (or even illegal??)

In that context, yes, there are certainly cases where making space is reasonable and legal, like stopping shy of side intersection while (traffic is stopped) to allow a turn.

Stopping or altering traffic isn't, though. You shouldn't stop at a green to allow another driver to maneuver for all the same reasons.

Re: Waymo blocking ambulance during deadly Austin shooting

#60

Post by pigbearpig »

mxfh wrote: post #8

Cars block the street all the time, there is ample place to pass the waymo car on the left in the opposing lane, yet those SUV driving humans don't care to move out of the way either, and police just blocks the maneuver area too. That silver car in the front could also just pass in front and make space. Situational awareness has room to be improved for a lot of entities in this short video. Nueces Street is 3 and hal…

Give me a break. The problem is the Waymo that is blocking a lane sideways and is not pulling forward out of the way of the ambulance, a move that even the worst human drivers would likely know to do.

It does no good to pretend there aren't problems with self-driving cars or make excuses.

It's not about the other entities.

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