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Waymo blocking ambulance during deadly Austin shooting

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Re: Waymo blocking ambulance during deadly Austin shooting

#11

Post by amelius »

afavour wrote: post #4
xvxvx wrote: post #2

We continue to inch closer to these dumb buckets costing someone their life. Hell, they may already have.

Human driven cars cost people their lives multiple times every day, though. So I don't think the calculation can be quite as simple as that. As self driving cars are rolled out I think each incident like this needs to be studied to see how avoidable it was, whether a human would have been able to resolve it, and what changes can be made. There are always going to be fuck ups at some level. The question is whether we’…

The argument that as long as they cause less incidents than human drivers they are a win has to go. Because that only works if the statistics of the environment are stationary.

Re: Waymo blocking ambulance during deadly Austin shooting

#12

Post by dyauspitr »

xvxvx wrote: post #2

We continue to inch closer to these dumb buckets costing someone their life. Hell, they may already have.

No, we’re finding edge cases that come up once every like million miles these things are putting on the road. Which means they are pretty damn good given how many are on the road right now.

Re: Waymo blocking ambulance during deadly Austin shooting

#14

Post by dangero »

The problem we will encounter with self driving cars is that while they will make less mistakes than humans, they will make different mistakes.

Humans will continue to have a hard time accepting this tradeoff.

I live in LA where Waymos are now on every street. My experience is that they don’t respect human courtesy, so for example if I need to cross a lane of busy traffic, a human may brake as a courtesy to let me through. Waymos have fucked me over where a human probably would have shown some level of community and empathy.

Re: Waymo blocking ambulance during deadly Austin shooting

#15

Post by afavour »

amelius wrote: post #11
afavour wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Human driven cars cost people their lives multiple times every day, though. So I don't think the calculation can be quite as simple as that. As self driving cars are rolled out I think each incident like this needs to be studied to see how avoidable it was, whether a human would have been able to resolve it, and what changes can be made. There are always going to be fuck ups at some level. The question is whether we’…

The argument that as long as they cause less incidents than human drivers they are a win has to go. Because that only works if the statistics of the environment are stationary.

What does “statistics of the environment” mean in this context? How can fewer deaths on the road not be a win?

Re: Waymo blocking ambulance during deadly Austin shooting

#16

Post by orliesaurus »

This is my town, wow - cant believe someone filmed this whole interaction while there was a shooting a couple of blocks from there... If the ambulance was in a hurry they could have rammed the Waymo, I am sure Google wouldn't have sued for damages.

AFAIK when a Waymo detects emergency vehicle lights and sirens, it is designed to pull over and stop, unlock its doors, and roll down its windows. Also: First responders can put the vehicle into a manual mode to move it if needed.

Re: Waymo blocking ambulance during deadly Austin shooting

#17

Post by bgun »

4d4m wrote: post #3

Wild! Who wrote legislation to allow this?

You mean cars being allowed to endanger human lives? Enshrined by law, urban infrastructure and cultural notions of independence for over a century? Why is it just now seen as a problem because robots are driving, instead of the stupid, reckless, poorly trained, often intoxicated humans who have been driving up until now?

Re: Waymo blocking ambulance during deadly Austin shooting

#18

Post by NewJazz »

dangero wrote: post #14

The problem we will encounter with self driving cars is that while they will make less mistakes than humans, they will make different mistakes. Humans will continue to have a hard time accepting this tradeoff. I live in LA where Waymos are now on every street. My experience is that they don’t respect human courtesy, so for example if I need to cross a lane of busy traffic, a human may brake as a courtesy to let me th…

Humans will continue to have a hard time accepting this tradeoff.

Are you asserting that humans should accept these, currently not fully known, tradeoffs?

Re: Waymo blocking ambulance during deadly Austin shooting

#19

Post by SecretDreams »

cj wrote: post #6
xvxvx wrote: post #2

We continue to inch closer to these dumb buckets costing someone their life. Hell, they may already have.

If you are to believe Waymo’s safety stats, they have less accidents/injuries per mile driven. But whether or not reducing injuries at a statistical level outweighs the downside of autonomous vehicles causing accidents (even at lower rates) is a bit of a dilemma.

I think the style of incidents and circumstances are probably neglected. But, even if they're not, I think there's other reasons we notice waymo issues more. Akin to how nuclear and airplane travel are safer than coal and car travel. This might be true, but when something does go well in those aforementioned fields, we notice.

Re: Waymo blocking ambulance during deadly Austin shooting

#20

Post by AdrianB1 »

prhn wrote: post #7

At the risk of sounding ignorant, why didn't the various police cruisers and even the ambulance itself just push the damn thing out of the way? That's what the push bars attached to the front of their vehicles are for.

Ambulances can be seriously damaged by attempting to do it. Police cruisers can do it, but then they may be sued for damages. I know that cars blocking fire hydrants were a serious problem in the past and owners sued firemen for pulling water hoses through their cars after breaking the windows - the law was not allowing it even if the line through the car was the only option.
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