Live data from Hacker News

Heyzap (YC W09) launches: The forming of Heyzap and some lessons learnt

immadsnewworld.com

61–69 of 69 posts

Re: Heyzap (YC W09) launches: The forming of Heyzap and some lessons learnt

#61
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I don't get your point. Do you mind elaborating?

The expected value of extra documentation for a possible lawsuit is lower than the expected return on just carrying out the business plan with the same resources. That is, it's almost certainly a waste of time.

Absolutely not. In fact, it is standard practice in most laboratories to have a research notebook that documents such things for patent purposes. This is relatively easy to do, and isn't much bother at all.

Re: Heyzap (YC W09) launches: The forming of Heyzap and some lessons learnt

#62
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you use that documentation for?

If you need to go to court, they become legal documents showing you had the idea, and whom you told, and when. VC won't sign NDAs, so this is your best protection. At the least, it can stop ugly boards (think: Blackboard) from coming after you once they gain traction ('cuz they got the VC funding, remember?).

I've never heard of a single case where a startup made a claim against anyone based on such information. Nor is it necessary to protect oneself; commit logs should be fine for that.

Re: Heyzap (YC W09) launches: The forming of Heyzap and some lessons learnt

#63
post #12

Sorry if I am coming over as offensive, but I just need to share that it feels kind of weird when you submit a business idea like that, get rejected and than 5 months later read about how yc chose somebody else (who had already in the program before) to create a business - which is just your idea - and he had it like 3 to 4 months ago. Of course the idea for such a thing will always be born in many heads at the same…

VCs do this sort of thing all the time. But, maybe YC didn't do it intentionally. Maybe someone overhead your idea at a party. Maybe it was a coincidence.

Who cares? Get over it. Do it anyway. If you can't do it better, do it cheaper with less effort to starve 'em, or go somewhere they're not looking. Why are you giving up so easy?

Re: Heyzap (YC W09) launches: The forming of Heyzap and some lessons learnt

#64
post #12

Sorry if I am coming over as offensive, but I just need to share that it feels kind of weird when you submit a business idea like that, get rejected and than 5 months later read about how yc chose somebody else (who had already in the program before) to create a business - which is just your idea - and he had it like 3 to 4 months ago. Of course the idea for such a thing will always be born in many heads at the same…

Thanks for all the replies and feedback and sorry for replying so late - I'm currently travelling through south east asia and don't have internet most times. That's the reason I haven't been working on my own startup as well. Last fall for me it was "maybe get chosen by yc and start working on the thing than or do a 6 month sabbatical first (after 3 years working for the man) and than start on my own. So right now I think it will probably be 2starting on my own but working on something else2 :( I completely agree with everybody that stated that the team is usually more important than the idea and that execution trumps everything. Still the timing of the whole affair feels really bad to me. Having had this idea in mind for quite sometime (besides lots of others), finally quitting the job, submitting it to yc and now see it implemented by someone else from just that cycle where I was turned down I must say I kinda feel fucked - to be that blunt.

Everybody saying that I can still do it (or similar) is right in principle, but to me the most important part of yc has always not been about the funding money but the mentoring and networking and actually beeing in the valley. Coming from germany of course I can start here as well, but pg himself is the first to tell you about how much of a difference this is. So looking to go against an now established player with all those advantages on his side doesn't seem like that good of an option and the best my startup could achieve would probably be to be taken as "the lame german rip off" (there are a lot of them actually) by the public.

So in the end - not trying to read to much into it: the best conclusion I can come up with now is that apparently yc thinks that I and my team suck so much that, even when we come up with an idea like that, that is worth funding when someone else does it, we still stand no chance. So sadly I must say that I will probably not apply next time as I don't see how I could much improve on that situation.

BTW: Here is a part of my yc application so you can better understand where I'm coming from and judge for yourself.

What is your company going to make? Create a plattform to supply existing online networks with casual flash games which integrate into their social tree. Core business will not be in game development but in providing the service in form of customizable widgets to the social network site owners and users and ... Think "distributed kongregate"

For big plattforms like facebook and myspace that allow their users to integrate widgets of there own this means simply to create game widgets according to their api (i.e. facebook apps) and allow users to add those to their profiles. But unlike other simple games on facebook/myspace we want to make these games aware of the underlying social plattform by doing things like showing only the scores of the users friends in the high score table.

For smaller plattforms which don't allow user widgets (think NINQ and small self-developed local portals) we will market to the plattform owners to integrate a free full grown casual game portal in their site in form of a big widget which will occupy a whole page that they can then call THEIR game section. This big arcade widget will display games in different categories, most played games and most succesfull players - FOR THAT SOCIAL SITE ALONE.

...

Re: Heyzap (YC W09) launches: The forming of Heyzap and some lessons learnt

#65
post #62
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you need to go to court, they become legal documents showing you had the idea, and whom you told, and when. VC won't sign NDAs, so this is your best protection. At the least, it can stop ugly boards (think: Blackboard) from coming after you once they gain traction ('cuz they got the VC funding, remember?).

I've never heard of a single case where a startup made a claim against anyone based on such information. Nor is it necessary to protect oneself; commit logs should be fine for that.

The advice I got didn't only apply to startups. But, hey, you would know a lot more about this than I.

commit logs should be fine for that

You have commit logs for business plans? You're a good man.

Re: Heyzap (YC W09) launches: The forming of Heyzap and some lessons learnt

#66
post #62
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you need to go to court, they become legal documents showing you had the idea, and whom you told, and when. VC won't sign NDAs, so this is your best protection. At the least, it can stop ugly boards (think: Blackboard) from coming after you once they gain traction ('cuz they got the VC funding, remember?).

I've never heard of a single case where a startup made a claim against anyone based on such information. Nor is it necessary to protect oneself; commit logs should be fine for that.

Mr. Graham, do you take requests for essays? You've been on both sides of the table on this. What would you honestly tell your younger self about protecting your work from "bad guys?" What is worth worrying about, and what is not, in your estimation? That would be very cool.

Re: Heyzap (YC W09) launches: The forming of Heyzap and some lessons learnt

#67
post #66
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never heard of a single case where a startup made a claim against anyone based on such information. Nor is it necessary to protect oneself; commit logs should be fine for that.

Mr. Graham, do you take requests for essays? You've been on both sides of the table on this. What would you honestly tell your younger self about protecting your work from "bad guys?" What is worth worrying about, and what is not, in your estimation? That would be very cool.

We don't have to go back to my younger self: I constantly have to advise YC startups about this.

What I tell them is short enough to put here. The only effective protection is secrecy. But you never want to seem overtly secretive. So the optimal policy is to seem to be explaining everything about what you're doing, but to omit the important but non-obvious details that you get right but someone trying to reproduce your project would initially get wrong. By definition, no one who's not an expert will notice when such details are omitted.

Part 2: Err on the side of openness. Your valuable secrets are not as valuable as you think, and the danger of telling people stuff is not as great as you think.

Re: Heyzap (YC W09) launches: The forming of Heyzap and some lessons learnt

#68
post #67
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mr. Graham, do you take requests for essays? You've been on both sides of the table on this. What would you honestly tell your younger self about protecting your work from "bad guys?" What is worth worrying about, and what is not, in your estimation? That would be very cool.

We don't have to go back to my younger self: I constantly have to advise YC startups about this. What I tell them is short enough to put here. The only effective protection is secrecy. But you never want to seem overtly secretive. So the optimal policy is to seem to be explaining everything about what you're doing, but to omit the important but non-obvious details that you get right but someone trying to reproduce yo…

I'm sure I'm not the only one who will thank you for posting that. It makes good sense.

Re: Heyzap (YC W09) launches: The forming of Heyzap and some lessons learnt

#69
post #64
post #12

Sorry if I am coming over as offensive, but I just need to share that it feels kind of weird when you submit a business idea like that, get rejected and than 5 months later read about how yc chose somebody else (who had already in the program before) to create a business - which is just your idea - and he had it like 3 to 4 months ago. Of course the idea for such a thing will always be born in many heads at the same…

Thanks for all the replies and feedback and sorry for replying so late - I'm currently travelling through south east asia and don't have internet most times. That's the reason I haven't been working on my own startup as well. Last fall for me it was "maybe get chosen by yc and start working on the thing than or do a 6 month sabbatical first (after 3 years working for the man) and than start on my own. So right now I…

Anyway: yc is a great thing and I am thankful just for being able to watch it grow and congratulate everybody who makes it in. So no harm intended.
Post reply on HN