I modded this submission up not because I agree with it but because I want a discussion. The G-WAN author has been known being... confident. He claims to be faster and more scalable than Nginx by a significant factor. He attributes the speed partially to the fact that his code contains few branches, where he defines even function calls as branches. Both statements are bold claims, and I can only imagine how it would…
There's no "G-WAN's Javascript engine". Just plain old V8 embedded via a handler. You get just the basics, no batteries included aka you need to code the bindings to various things (like FS, crypto, etc) by yourself. A year ago, a member of the former G-WAN community wrote a handler and V8 wrapper: https://gist.github.com/1077769 . Guess that the G-WAN author (Pierre) tweaked that a little bit more. Tested it myself.…
What makes something "notable"?
31–40 of 41 posts
Re: What makes something "notable"?
#32This submission was originally called "Node.js is all just hype"! Apparently after 10 comments, the submitter renamed it to "What makes something notable?". At http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4113514 I read that: "Pierre (the sole G-WAN author) says some funny things. He also defends G-WAN using dummy accounts all over the internet (StackOverflow, Reddit, Wikipedia, etc)." The submitter, lehgo, happens to be crea…
I enjoy using gwan for my projects. So far my stack is usually nginx+gwan+mysql+mongodb.I use nginx for it's modules and it's PHP support. I use gwan to write C scripts and which is basically the original PHP scripts just converted to C for way better performance. I'v used PHP for a while now so much that I have grown to absolutely hate how slow it is. Still, PHP is easy to dev with so I keep it in my stack.
Also i did not rename the topic someone else did as stated in one of the first comments by the person who actually did the change.
That being said you are incorrect on your first point "submitter renamed it" and paranoid on your second "Coincidence?".
I usually post about gwan that being only 2 topics so far because it just so happens to be my current interest in my field of work.
Re: What makes something "notable"?
#33These are some of the points in the documentation that give some discomfort. There are legitimate reasons to have additional flexibility and I really don't care to have language rants in otherwise objective and factual user documentation.
- Log files are set to a fixed naming convention
- Log files are rotated at midnight - it appears there is no method of adjusting this time period
- On mime-types "As this list is hard-coded you cannot add MIME types in G-WAN but we will add any type that makes sense if users ask for it."
- "How many languages do you need to learn if one of them works better than all? C made Unix, Windows, games, PDF viewers, Web browsers. C servlets will be limited by your sole imagination. C survived 40 years for a reason: it fits the task."
- "And take Javascript's optional semicolon to end statements (that was the case in some pointlessly complex parts of the JS code of the demo: a JS function defining a nested function as a parameter...). When a carriage-return replaces a semicolon then G-WAN's JS minifying (also used with HTML embedding JS) breaks the code by removing carriage-returns that 40-year-old C can safely ditch (not the more 'modern' Javascript which is far more commonly reformated to lower network latency). The mark of pure genius at work: creating problems that have no reason to exist."
Re: What makes something "notable"?
#34Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's no "G-WAN's Javascript engine". Just plain old V8 embedded via a handler. You get just the basics, no batteries included aka you need to code the bindings to various things (like FS, crypto, etc) by yourself. A year ago, a member of the former G-WAN community wrote a handler and V8 wrapper: https://gist.github.com/1077769 . Guess that the G-WAN author (Pierre) tweaked that a little bit more. Tested it myself.…
That makes me all the more curious: why is it faster? I cannot imagine Node doing something obviously wrong that would explain the difference. Evented I/O is pretty well understood, I/O loops aren't that hard and it's all just accept()/read()/write()/close() at the end of the day. Where does the 5x difference come from?
vert.x used the JavaScript bindings via Mozilla Rhino. I guess that a pure Java test could be a little bit faster than that.
Re: What makes something "notable"?
#35They really should make this open source and switch to community model of development. Same thing I've seen with Rebol. Freeware but closed source = no trust from users.
It is kinda sad. The performance of his stack is second to none (in my testing he undersells it). I really do like configuration via directory structure, and it has various cool tooling in it. That said, yeah, the freeware / closed source seems to be the worst combo. But who would buy a web server they couldn't test first? Also, the guys crazy (ala Tesla, crazy smart) personality is allowed to shine though on his sit…
G-WAN is a freeware that can be downloaded from its web site.
How "neutral" in a debate is such kind of false claims that G-WAN can't be tested?
Re: What makes something "notable"?
#36I modded this submission up not because I agree with it but because I want a discussion. The G-WAN author has been known being... confident. He claims to be faster and more scalable than Nginx by a significant factor. He attributes the speed partially to the fact that his code contains few branches, where he defines even function calls as branches. Both statements are bold claims, and I can only imagine how it would…
> "Javascript is so much easier to program for than C"
G-WAN offers both. And 13 other languages.
> if you have 2 million users then switching to G-WAN does not give you a lot of added advantage
Node.js will never survive 2 million users if it faints at 1 thousand users.
> "Why is G-WAN faster?"
For the same reason that makes Nginx faster than Apache: better coding.
> "What's the difference between Node and G-WAN's Javascript engine?"
None. You criticize without reading. It is said that "G-WAN runs node.js as a script engine (which results in testing V8)".
> "Where is the source code for the benchmark?"
On the site that you claim that you have read.
> "G-WAN is a very interesting product but it would have so much more potential if the author behaves more professionally."
Hmmm... you probably mean, like you?
You "moderated" this Hackers News entry to:
- spread FUD about G-WAN
and
- promote Phusion Passenger (your product)
Phusion Passenger is not censored on Wikipedia because, like Node.js, it is much slower than G-WAN.Maybe that's why you ask how G-WAN manages to be so much faster?
Re: What makes something "notable"?
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's no "G-WAN's Javascript engine". Just plain old V8 embedded via a handler. You get just the basics, no batteries included aka you need to code the bindings to various things (like FS, crypto, etc) by yourself. A year ago, a member of the former G-WAN community wrote a handler and V8 wrapper: https://gist.github.com/1077769 . Guess that the G-WAN author (Pierre) tweaked that a little bit more. Tested it myself.…
That makes me all the more curious: why is it faster? I cannot imagine Node doing something obviously wrong that would explain the difference. Evented I/O is pretty well understood, I/O loops aren't that hard and it's all just accept()/read()/write()/close() at the end of the day. Where does the 5x difference come from?
#include "gwan.h" // G-WAN exported functions
int count=0;
int main(int argc, char *argv[])
{
if (!count) printf("New Counter!\n");
xbuf_xcat(get_reply(argv), "Hello World %d",count++);
return 200; // return an HTTP code (200:'OK')
}Re: What makes something "notable"?
#38I modded this submission up not because I agree with it but because I want a discussion. The G-WAN author has been known being... confident. He claims to be faster and more scalable than Nginx by a significant factor. He attributes the speed partially to the fact that his code contains few branches, where he defines even function calls as branches. Both statements are bold claims, and I can only imagine how it would…
@FooBarWidget, an obvious Phusion Passenger troll (look at his posts) > "Javascript is so much easier to program for than C" G-WAN offers both. And 13 other languages. > if you have 2 million users then switching to G-WAN does not give you a lot of added advantage Node.js will never survive 2 million users if it faints at 1 thousand users. > "Why is G-WAN faster?" For the same reason that makes Nginx faster than Apac…
Correction, I am one of the Phusion Passenger authors. I do not make this a secret.
You seem to have misunderstood my response for trolling. I apologize if I came over like that, but all I want is some critical discussion and better explanations than grand claims without proof.
> G-WAN offers both. And 13 other languages.
I never said it didn't. I merely said there are legit reasons for using Javascript over C.
> Node.js will never survive 2 million users if it faints at 1 thousand users.
> For the same reason that makes Nginx faster than Apache: better coding.
Ok, now give me some details. These statements are meaningless on their own. "will never survive" contradicts real-world examples in which Node obviously did survive. Also, under what hardware? What networks? What operating systems? Under what test conditions?
Nginx is faster than Apache because of "better coding"? That vague statement doesn't mean anything. Nginx is faster than Apache partially because of its architecture: evented vs multiprocessing/multithreading, speed at the cost of flexibility, memory allocation patterns, etc. Nginx isn't anywhere near the swiss army knife that Apache is, and as soon as it is it will become comparable in performance. I can pinpoint specific areas in Nginx and explain why they're faster than the equivalent in Apache. Can you do that with G-WAN vs the rest?
I'm looking an in-depth technical study of what makes G-WAN faster than the competition, not vague grand statements.
> On the site that you claim that you have read.
They have the source code for the benchmarking app but not the hello world app. Direct link please.
> You "moderated" this Hackers News entry to: > - spread FUD about G-WAN
Calm down, this isn't a war. I apologize if it come over as FUD, but it was merely critical curiosity.
> and > - promote Phusion Passenger (your product)
Correct. I make no attempt to hide this. In fact, I challenge you to find any promotional messages that are not based on facts. I do not, and do not want to, promote my products with FUD or inaccuracies.
> Phusion Passenger is not censored on Wikipedia because, like Node.js, it is much slower than G-WAN.
What do censoring and Wikipedia have to do with this? And correct, it is slower. We focus on ease of use, reliability, stability and features, not raw performance. If highest req/sec at the cost of everything else is what you want, then you are looking at the wrong product.
I cannot help but feel that your statement that Phusion Passenger is "much slower" than G-WAN is an attack in an attempt to defend G-WAN. Again, it is not my intention to troll or spread FUD on G-WAN.
> Maybe that's why you ask how G-WAN manages to be so much faster?
Yes, that is exactly why. As an application server author I am constantly seeking to improve my knowledge and skills in this area.
Performance is not always the end goal. It comes at a cost. Nginx is not faster than Apache because it's "better coded" but because of tradeoffs in architecture and features. Likewise, there are ways to make Phusion Passenger faster, but they come at the cost of reduced code maintainability, reduced feature set, etc.
And uhm, klue, whoever you are... please don't reply from a newly created account made for the mere sake of replying to me. I want a civilized, technical discussion, not a pissing contest. Please reply with your real account.
Re: What makes something "notable"?
#39This submission was originally called "Node.js is all just hype"! Apparently after 10 comments, the submitter renamed it to "What makes something notable?". At http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4113514 I read that: "Pierre (the sole G-WAN author) says some funny things. He also defends G-WAN using dummy accounts all over the internet (StackOverflow, Reddit, Wikipedia, etc)." The submitter, lehgo, happens to be crea…
I just found the gwan topic interesting and the blog posts even more so. To eliminate any sort of crazy conspiracy theories, I am in no way shape and or form associated with gwan,nginx,msql,mongodb ect ect. I enjoy using gwan for my projects. So far my stack is usually nginx+gwan+mysql+mongodb.I use nginx for it's modules and it's PHP support. I use gwan to write C scripts and which is basically the original PHP scri…
Re: What makes something "notable"?
#40Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is kinda sad. The performance of his stack is second to none (in my testing he undersells it). I really do like configuration via directory structure, and it has various cool tooling in it. That said, yeah, the freeware / closed source seems to be the worst combo. But who would buy a web server they couldn't test first? Also, the guys crazy (ala Tesla, crazy smart) personality is allowed to shine though on his sit…
> "who would buy a web server they couldn't test first?" G-WAN is a freeware that can be downloaded from its web site. How "neutral" in a debate is such kind of false claims that G-WAN can't be tested?