Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think we're even seeing 90% now, and we certainly weren't in June or September of last year, which was when it was predicted.
We can argue about percentage points and months here and there, but we're very quickly coming to 100% and people aren't even afraid to admit it publicly anymore. The prophecy was definitely on point.
What AI coding costs you
151–160 of 206 posts
Re: What AI coding costs you
#152I wish we reach a point were we expect (as a matter of online etiquette) upfront disclaimers on predominantly AI-generated articles, so that we can save a few seconds and directly get our agents to read and summarize them. Even when it's not slop, the verbosity of poorly edited AI-generated content is a micro-agression against readers. The prompter expects readers to read what they couldn't be bothered to properly ed…
> micro-agression against readers
Re: What AI coding costs you
#153Hi HN, I've been using Claude Code heavily for the last year. Recently I've noticed a shift in sentiment among peers, here on HN, and over on /r/ExperiencedDevs. I wrote down some thoughts on the hidden costs of using AI too much that are not obvious, yet there's no concrete data yet. I tried to pull together data from a few different places to articulate something I think a lot of us are experiencing right now. I'd…
Thanks for writing this blog. Others are also starting to notice these impacts and writing about them. I believe that it is important for more voices to be heard. What resonated most for me was the "Finding Your Threshold" section. Your "Developers need the dopamine hit of creation." is memorable. I have also blogged about this phenomenon at https://www.exploravention.com/blogs/soft_arch_agentic_ai/ but I frame it mo…
Re: What AI coding costs you
#154Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem is that that is an incorrect interpretation of the study. The entire task of that study was specifically to learn a brand new asynchronous library that they hadn't had experience with before. As a group on average, those who used AI failed to learn how to use explain and debug that async library as well as those who hadn't used AI on average had, but that doesn't mean they lost pre-existing skills. It's l…
Point taken. Still, isn’t an activity like learning a new library, language, or platform a fundamental part of being a software developer? Haven’t we all complained at some point about companies hiring react developers because we all know the real skill is the ability to pick up new things. And to be clear, this isn’t moral panic, it’s a concern that we may end up in a future where people don’t know how systems work…
Yeah, this is fair. However, I think the same study indicates a way out of this dilemma. I feel like I've actually learned a lot about the languages and libraries I've used that I haven't known before through agent coding just by watching it do things and having explained and summarized things to me and find documentation and so on.
> And to be clear, this isn’t moral panic, it’s a concern that we may end up in a future where people don’t know how systems work anymore and we are dependent on two or three companies and their data center moats to maintain any technology.
I don't think this concern in itself constitutes a moral panic, no. I think it's a reasonable thing to think about and worry about how to avoid. However, I think there are definitely very prominent features of the general discourse and concern around this that do constitute a moral panic:
1. First of all, and most importantly, this issue is very often moralized, around like having done a proper amount of work or suffered enough or whatever to be like justified in getting the results you're getting or participating or being considered a real program or whatever. This moralization has existed in the community for a really long time, treating programmers that work at a higher abstraction level than you as lesser than or whatever, so I would argue this isn't a natural response to these concerns so much as it is an extension of a moralistic attitude to a new topic and it's also not necessary to have in order to have these discussions.
2. The hyperbolic misinterpretation of studies, and the fact that these concerns are being raised as if they are going to be a certain, and huge, consequence when we just have very little evidence so far to that effect.
3. The fact that most of the discussion isn't about how to use these tools in a way that doesn't face these problems or whatever, but instead a sort of binary framing around either you suffer from this problem or you boycott.
4. The way the idea of "cognitive debt" and these other things is used to frame it as anyone using AI has their brains "turned to mush" or whatever, as if it's some kind of like general debilitating cognitive injury inside of just that you're getting rusty at skills because you aren't using them, even using scaremongering terms like skill atrophy, which is then used to preemptively dismiss the thoughts of anyone, the people most concerned about this disagree with.
I also think like... If the argument is that people get good at what they do a lot and to get rusty at what they don't do, I really don't see the argument for why using AI a lot wouldn't make you better at high level architectural decisions spotting possible problems with architectures and approaches before they become a problem organizing your thoughts and tasks, reading a code and spotting issues, etc.
The thing is that using coding agents doesn't actually hide whether an algorithm isn't performant enough from you. It'll either be slow or it won't be.
It doesn't hide if you've come up with a bad architecture, because that will also confuse the agent and make it difficult for it to make future modifications without breaking other things.
It doesn't hide a lack of DRY either because if you've got the same code in multiple places and you want to change how it behaves then you've got to change it in multiple places and they can get out of sync and that will bite you in the ass.
And then there's the fact that with coding agents, there's an obvious and direct reward for using more tests and more advanced testing, better linters, more compiled and typed languages, better CI/CD, better documentation, etc. So people will probably get better at that.
Re: What AI coding costs you
#155The hell with with whatever speed boost I might get. I still write all my code by hand every day, and own what it does. I know it. And I don't have to worry about atrophy. Could've outsourced a long time ago to humans, if I wanted to deal with reading code most of the time instead of writing it.
If programmer speed and efficiency was truly such a significant competitive factor, we wouldn't be packing them like sardines them in noisy and stuffy open floor plan offices.
Re: What AI coding costs you
#156Hi HN, I've been using Claude Code heavily for the last year. Recently I've noticed a shift in sentiment among peers, here on HN, and over on /r/ExperiencedDevs. I wrote down some thoughts on the hidden costs of using AI too much that are not obvious, yet there's no concrete data yet. I tried to pull together data from a few different places to articulate something I think a lot of us are experiencing right now. I'd…
It's addictive. You're fast, efficient, you feel like you're in control. All while you're slowly losing grip.
I love how nuanced your takes are. The biggest challenge of this new programming paradigm is not to see how you can use it to its fullest extent. It is to find out what a sustainable pace is, both sort and long term.
It is hard to understate how difficult that is.
Re: What AI coding costs you
#157I'm not buying this argument - use it or lose it isn't even true in physical sense - sure if you stop working out you lose muscles/strength - but once you start back up the rate of progression is like 5x.
It is very true in a physical sense. "Use it" results in neural pathways being formed. What happens when you dont use them? https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01602...
Likewise for physical exercise - it took me a year to hit 100kg squat when I started getting into shape 10 years ago. I haven't been very physically active for years but I'd hit 100x5 in a month of starting gym again.
Re: What AI coding costs you
#158cognitive debt is a real problem in my domain (embedded software) because AI simply can’t debug the symptom when the reasons for the bug aren’t in code, and a stack trace may not exist. finding the REALLY hard bugs requires in depth systems understanding and the ability to connect things you’ve seen around the codebase together - and the fix usually isn’t adding code, which means the patchwork fixes Claude likes to do only makes things worse.
that said, it’s made writing harnesses and supporting tools WAY easier and faster, and my workflow is better for it. Searching the git history for the why of things is also made way easier; helping me to reason more effectively
Re: What AI coding costs you
#159For instance I was thinking of AI coding where the developer is writing the application interface, files, design, and the AI in the background is reading them and translating them to the programming language of choice.
This way the developer is writing the whole thing out by hand, it would be as if one is writing fluid pseudo code, but the abstractions would be there, the way they are interacting with each other is there, the human is thinking if the abstractions and when to use them. Whereas the AI is out of the view, simply translating the fluid pseudo code to a rigid programming language.
Perhaps the above isn't really it, but I strongly feel something needs to change in the way we currently work, because it really creates a chasm between the developer and the outputted code not only in terms of the actual implementation but the mental abstractions it's supposed to reflect
Re: What AI coding costs you
#160>Every developer I know uses AI for coding now. And for blogging too, it seems.