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What AI coding costs you

tomwojcik.com

51–60 of 206 posts

Re: What AI coding costs you

#51

I started my coding apprenticeship back in early 80s with a senior programmer who taught me to code in LSI-11 processor codes. I memorized the whole table of octal processor opcodes and learned how to compose them with data to write programs on PDP-11. I was able to understand what each exact 16-bit word in my program is doing. It was a great skill. But then the same guy taught me FORTRAN 83, and I suddenly understoo…

The difference between now and then is a grand skill shift (from logic to vibe) and also fear of being replaced by this technology which was never the case before at this scale. You and me, we don't have this fear but many colleagues fear this new tech and also those colleagues who seem to get along with it.

Re: What AI coding costs you

#52
What just came to my mind is that the current main selling point of AI, is coder productivity. Some anecdotal experiences from a small agile team:

We had 1 week sprints and our PO had sometimes trouble to prepare enough work for the next sprint. We had 4 week sprints and we often ended up pulling tickets from the next sprint. There was often a mismatch in pace. (Quite funny, the time we had found a balance, management ordered all teams to have the same sprint lengths. They couldn't deal with all the asynchronous, overlapping sprint starts/ends. They choose to forfeit our productivity for theirs.)

So productivity isn't all about coders, it's also about owners / managers / shareholders supplying work. This kind of work is much about communication with several involved parties and researching usecases and features in a very specific context. LLMs can help with parts of it, but at one point there will be a flood of excessive, unverified generic reports and LLMs that again condense them with all the inaccuracies, that managers/owners may drown in a fuzzy mess of LLM bureaucracy. Nuances and importance will get lost in excess.

We often had rather large stories that simply had a small set of bulletpoints, because we already communicated everything in person and they were just reminders for the most important stuff. The importance here is that this reflected the teams agency how we solve things. An LLM can probably not at all provide that currently, as they are always excessive and try to add "helpful" details. They simply cannot pick up social norms and agreements, and prompting them correctly is in my opinion very hard or too time consuming.

LLM assisted coding or vibe coding is all the hype. But I have the feeling that the big realization sets in once all supporting processes are convoluted with AI noise, the peers that used to collaborate are detached and social conflicts and misunderstandings escalate.

Re: What AI coding costs you

#53
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even before AI, I’ve witnessed at Google plenty of L6 and L7 software engineers atrophy. They stop writing code, start reviewing code, until they find that their code reviews catch fewer issues than a junior engineer’s reviews. They have become accustomed to thinking only at a high-level, and when met with low-level details they can’t tell good from bad any more. Their coding skills, both reading and writing, have at…

Do they also stop providing value to Google as a result? I don’t get paid to write code, and you probably don’t either.

> Do they also stop providing value to Google as a result?

In the context of a software engineer, yes obviously?

> I don’t get paid to write code, and you probably don’t either.

I feel like you're rejecting the premise of the argument. You're talking about becoming a manager, as if that track is somehow relevant to software engineers. I used to be a nurse, I'm not anymore. My skills have definitely atrophied. I would now be a shitty and dangerous nurse. How does that apply to my skills at software engineering? When you stop being a software engineer, it's expected your skills at interacting with code will fall away. But the article you're arguing against isn't written for nurses, and equally isn't written engineering managers.

Re: What AI coding costs you

#54
I wish we reach a point were we expect (as a matter of online etiquette) upfront disclaimers on predominantly AI-generated articles, so that we can save a few seconds and directly get our agents to read and summarize them.

Even when it's not slop, the verbosity of poorly edited AI-generated content is a micro-agression against readers. The prompter expects readers to read what they couldn't be bothered to properly edit.

Pushing AI-slop code without review, and without explicit warnings is a macro-agression against your colleagues, collaborators, and future agents. You are expecting everybody around you to maintain/ refactor, what you couldn't be botherered to review.

Re: What AI coding costs you

#56
One of the things I have started to realize whilst building apps using AI is that you get a bit indulgent when it comes to features. So in my toy project I wanted all sorts of quality of life bells-and-whistles. If this were a proper enterprise application there would have a been a review and priortization process where the merits would be weighted against the cost. In this case the cost is tokens, so fraction of FTE cost. So I just type and it builds. Whilst this is satisfying I am getting the unnerving sense its not going to be good for me (or the toy app) in the long run.

Re: What AI coding costs you

#58

What I don't think people are talking enough about yet, is that AI doesn't invent new ways of doing things -- it just predicts the next word based on the materials it was trained on. That means that if a company lets all its coding be done by AI -- that company will be permanently stuck in, say, 2026 -- while other companies will be continuously improving.

This is actually a big advantage of using AI.

Using simple mature tech stacks following best practices makes your product much better.

Developers have a strong desire to reinvent the wheel and it wastes so much time.

Innovative should only be attempted in your product domain if you are trying to make a successful company.

Re: What AI coding costs you

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you be more precise?

uh...okay. The legend of Faust is the classic work where a person sells his soul to the devil for power/knowledge/pleasure. Goethe has Faust make a wager with the Mephistopheles: show me the good life (pleasure, power, knowledge, whatever) it will never be enough to make me stop striving, to make me want to linger. If you can do that my soul is yours. To me it reads a _lot_ like our contract with AI.

I don't have a contract with AI.

Re: What AI coding costs you

#60
Writing code by hand and managing the mental model of its execution and architecture is one of the few remaining joys of my day job, apart from delivering a good product people want and use and being helpful. Even the small things, the tedious chores of refactoring or scaffolding that initial bit of CRUD boilerplate are steps that matter to me. The callouses matter. The tedium matters. These moments of pain and drudgery inform me on what to do differently next time in a way I worry I would not appreciate otherwise, were specific tools thrust upon me.

I remain because I remain hopeful the pendulum will swing the other way someday.

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