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How High School English Class Ruined Your Proposals

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Re: How High School English Class Ruined Your Proposals

#21

Post by _delirium »

mturmon wrote: post #2

The post talks about how a page minimum had the effect of rewarding useless verbiage. I've found that page maximums in proposal writing have helped me to sharpen my writing considerably. I had to write a 5 page proposal for $100k in a very competitive program earlier this year, and it was really a challenge to get all the ideas in. Another thing I learned along the way is inverted storytelling. Tell it once in a sent…

Interestingly enough, that's also the same length as a typical high-school essay assignment (5 pages). I think the critical difference might be that high-school students don't actually have much to say, so struggle to fill that, while when you have something to say, it's actually quite a challengingly short length.

Re: How High School English Class Ruined Your Proposals

#22

Post by saucetenuto »

frobozz wrote: post #18

>Using big words not only improved your grade, it also took up space, getting you closer to the critical 5 page minimum. I have to disagree with this point. Using "big words" (or "fancy vocabulary words"), often makes it difficult to reach the minimum word or page count. "plant that emerges from its seed with a singular leaf" for example, is 40 characters (9 words) longer than "monocotyledon".

True, but there are plenty of 1:1 replacements out there, at least if you don't care about the quality of your writing: use -> utilize, do -> implement, and so forth.

Re: How High School English Class Ruined Your Proposals

#23

Post by mysterywhiteboy »

dalke wrote: post #12
nikatwork wrote: post #11

"I am sorry I have had to write you such a long letter, but I did not have time to write you a short one" -- Blaise Pascal My writing was also ruined by highschool English rewarding large word counts and overblown language. Twitter has completely broken me of the habit, and my writing is far clearer and punchier as a result. Eschew excess verbiage and all that.

Why is "excess" needed there? "Eschew verbiage" seems a better fit to its own guideline. "Verbiage" means "speech or writing that uses too many words or excessively technical expressions" so the original is something like "avoid an excess of too many words."

It's a Mark Twain quote where Twain was making the point ironically.

Re: How High School English Class Ruined Your Proposals

#24

Post by brazzy »

ollysb wrote: post #19
brazzy wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most eye-opening thing I've did in that regard is participate in a "microfiction" contest related to an online game, that had you tell complete stories in exactly 55 words, with a (vague) predetermined theme. It's truly amazing what you can do with so few words.

I'd love to read some of these, got a link?

http://forums.puzzlepirates.com/community/mvnforum/viewthrea...

The rounds of contest stories are linked in the first post. The contest was inspired by this: http://www.wunderland.com/WTS/Andy/Nanofiction.html

Re: How High School English Class Ruined Your Proposals

#25

Post by mturmon »

reubenswartz wrote: post #3
mturmon wrote: post #2

The post talks about how a page minimum had the effect of rewarding useless verbiage. I've found that page maximums in proposal writing have helped me to sharpen my writing considerably. I had to write a 5 page proposal for $100k in a very competitive program earlier this year, and it was really a challenge to get all the ideas in. Another thing I learned along the way is inverted storytelling. Tell it once in a sent…

Great points. And unlike your high school papers, which hopefully your teacher at least read through until the end, your prospect may not even read through the whole proposal if you don't start with something compelling. (I wrote a whole other post about this: http://www.mimiran.com/proposals/why-your-prospect-doesnt-wa... ) Keep it short, sweet, and interesting. (If you've ever been on the other side, having to read…

Yep, being on the other side is the best way to prepare for actually writing a proposal. It's easier to write a document when you know the mindset of the person reading it.

Re: How High School English Class Ruined Your Proposals

#26

Post by reubenswartz »

runako wrote: post #10
tikhonj wrote: post #7

I've recently noticed the same problem in my writing: I spend too many words saying too little. I also repeat myself. Repeatedly. I'm hoping that being aware of this, coupled with some practice, will help me improve. Coincidentally, one of the people whose writing I've grown to respect the most is Stallman. Whether or not I agree with some particular essay, his points are always really clear and accessible. In early…

I try to refer to Ogilvy on writing, even when not writing copy: http://www.listsofnote.com/2012/02/how-to-write.html

Yes-- that's a great one.

Re: How High School English Class Ruined Your Proposals

#27

Post by reubenswartz »

brazzy wrote: post #24
ollysb wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love to read some of these, got a link?

http://forums.puzzlepirates.com/community/mvnforum/viewthrea... The rounds of contest stories are linked in the first post. The contest was inspired by this: http://www.wunderland.com/WTS/Andy/Nanofiction.html

Great stuff. Reminds me of Hemmingway's shortest story, just 6 words: "For sale: baby shoes, never used."

Re: How High School English Class Ruined Your Proposals

#28

Post by reubenswartz »

localhost3000 wrote: post #4

to the OP: can we get a real example of a sales proposal you've written recently that was effective and fits into what you're ...erm, proposing?

Wasn't trying to push my stuff, but here are a couple of resources that may be helpful.

You can sign up for a free Mimiran account (http://www.mimiran.com/pricing-signup/), which includes a couple of sample proposals which are based on real winning proposals.

You can also check out the http://www.mimiran.com/proposals/ section of the website, which has a number of posts on writing compelling proposals.

Check them out and see if you agree with the ideas we are, ummm, proposing. ;-)

Re: How High School English Class Ruined Your Proposals

#29

Post by reubenswartz »

Goronmon wrote: post #20
frobozz wrote: post #18

>Using big words not only improved your grade, it also took up space, getting you closer to the critical 5 page minimum. I have to disagree with this point. Using "big words" (or "fancy vocabulary words"), often makes it difficult to reach the minimum word or page count. "plant that emerges from its seed with a singular leaf" for example, is 40 characters (9 words) longer than "monocotyledon".

The trick is to include both the big word and then the explanation of said word into the essay.

Good points. Science and business writing often includes very precise words and/or acronyms that can make writing very dense, in a way that's good for experts to communicate effectively.

However, this can be a trap when trying to engage executives who may not have the expertise or the patience. (I've put myself in this trap many times, unfortunately.)

Re: How High School English Class Ruined Your Proposals

#30

Post by nikatwork »

dalke wrote: post #12
nikatwork wrote: post #11

"I am sorry I have had to write you such a long letter, but I did not have time to write you a short one" -- Blaise Pascal My writing was also ruined by highschool English rewarding large word counts and overblown language. Twitter has completely broken me of the habit, and my writing is far clearer and punchier as a result. Eschew excess verbiage and all that.

Why is "excess" needed there? "Eschew verbiage" seems a better fit to its own guideline. "Verbiage" means "speech or writing that uses too many words or excessively technical expressions" so the original is something like "avoid an excess of too many words."

verbiage (plural verbiages) 1. Overabundance of words 2. (US) The manner in which something is expressed in words

Using the second definition, this quote makes sense only with the inclusion of "excess".

[1] http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/verbiage

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