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Bus stop balancing is fast, cheap, and effective

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Re: Bus stop balancing is fast, cheap, and effective

#331

Post by njarboe »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #302
mcv wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not feasible to have a bus stop right in front of every house. It's unavoidable that most people are going to have to walk a bit. How far is reasonable, is a matter of trade-offs. It also depends on how fine grained the network is. If there are buslines every block, it's annoying if they don't stop there. But you have to walk a block or two to get to a bus line anyway, walking that bit more to get to the stop it…

> It's not feasible to have a bus stop right in front of every house. And this is why point-to-point transportation is almost always faster and more convenient, if you can afford to use it. (That load-bearing "if" is important, though.)

Self driving cars for hire (Waymo, Tesla, others) can be that point-to-point system that is affordable. We will just have to build tunnels to deal with the increase in traffic. Hopefully the Boring Company or someone else can get tunneling costs way down.

Re: Bus stop balancing is fast, cheap, and effective

#332

Post by the_sleaze_ »

amluto wrote: post #139
culi wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those busses still need designated spots to stop at. They can't be stopping in the middle of a street

Indeed. And if you want a lot of people to board the bus efficiently at the same time, you need them to agree to congregate somewhere before the bus arrives. One might call such a meeting point a “bus stop” :)

> you need them to agree

The app would say - meet here.

> One might call such a meeting point a “bus stop” :)

Call it what you want, it could be in a strip mall parking lot, a convenient corner or just in front of the apartment building. Optimized for traveling distance between the passengers.

Re: Bus stop balancing is fast, cheap, and effective

#333

Post by blauditore »

angmarsbane wrote: post #294
enraged_camel wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Maybe it goes without saying, but the reason you don’t mind the bus in Europe is not because you are European but because the European buses are nicer. Actually I think it is both. Car culture in Europe is nowhere as dominant as it is in the US. Many Europeans grow up with public transportation as the default mode of getting around. So they are more likely to be accustomed to things that become grievances for Amer…

There's an intimidation factor that a lot of Americans won't quickly admit to when it comes to taking the bus. They don't know if they can tap with their phone to pay, if they need cash, if they can use change, if they need exact cash/change, if they need a specific transit card etc. They don't know the etiquette for asking to get off the bus and sometimes it varies by bus design. They don't know the routes or the ti…

It's the same in Europe. There are many car drivers who would never admit that, but they just don't want to leave their comfort zone and learn how to use public transport. But when asked they will say stuff like "well, we live a bit outside the city", or "now with kids you basically need a car".

Re: Bus stop balancing is fast, cheap, and effective

#334

Post by SoftTalker »

enraged_camel wrote: post #192
janalsncm wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it goes without saying, but the reason you don’t mind the bus in Europe is not because you are European but because the European buses are nicer. The things you say about noise and pollution are also true in the US, and American drivers are acutely aware of them. But the alternative is not a European bus, so people drive.

>> Maybe it goes without saying, but the reason you don’t mind the bus in Europe is not because you are European but because the European buses are nicer. Actually I think it is both. Car culture in Europe is nowhere as dominant as it is in the US. Many Europeans grow up with public transportation as the default mode of getting around. So they are more likely to be accustomed to things that become grievances for Amer…

Rush hour CTA in Chicago is packed like that at least on some routes in and out of downtown. Or rather it used to be, I have not lived there in quite some time so not sure about today.

Re: Bus stop balancing is fast, cheap, and effective

#335

Post by dghlsakjg »

Symbiote wrote: post #315
dghlsakjg wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you clarify what you mean by dirty? Or why that would be any more dirty than anything else in public? European buses frequently have stop buttons, not sure how those would be any cleaner than a plastic covered cord. Also not sure what is old-fashioned about a pull cord compared to a bunch of buttons. Just a different way of activating an electrical circuit.

It's just the impression I get. Buses I've used in the USA are usually older and tattier than here, and the cord is part of that.

You need to clarify what you mean by "here" and what part of the US you are talking about. The US and Europe are big places and the transit systems are as different inter as they are intra.

The Paris Metro is an absolute run-down antique compared to the trains in Seattle. It would be silly for me to declare that all European metro systems are therefore run down and tatty. If I compare the Barcelona metro to New York, it makes Europe look great. Meanwhile the London Tube is cramped, frequently dilapidated and has its own species of mosquito.

Re: Bus stop balancing is fast, cheap, and effective

#336

Post by SoftTalker »

fc417fc802 wrote: post #304
miki123211 wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this starts in primary school. Make it legal for kids to move around on their own and take transit to school, just like they do in most of Europe and beyond. Parents are lazy, so many kids will. That's a lesson in public transportation use right there.

> Make it legal for kids to move around on their own and take transit to school ... it is legal though? But if you live in the typical US suburb then good luck with that. You'll catch a district provided bus to school and if your parents don't want to drive you somewhere you'll ride a bike or just not go. Taking the bus in the suburbs often means walking 15 minutes, waiting on 45+ minute service, and switching routes…

Yeah suburban bus service really just doesn't work. Not enough density. I live in a small town and they try but it's the same issue. Most buses drive around nearly empty and just slow down the cars that are following.

Re: Bus stop balancing is fast, cheap, and effective

#337

Post by cyberax »

mcv wrote: post #280
miltonlost wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I live in Chicago with the third-closest stop spacing per the article. I'm personally able to walk a block or two further to a bus stop no problem. Bus stop consolidation would save me a lot of time over the course of a year! Until there' a snowstorm, and no one shovels. And you have a broken leg, or are elderly, or disabled. Sure, it might save you personally some time, but we live in a society and should try to h…

It's not feasible to have a bus stop right in front of every house. It's unavoidable that most people are going to have to walk a bit. How far is reasonable, is a matter of trade-offs. It also depends on how fine grained the network is. If there are buslines every block, it's annoying if they don't stop there. But you have to walk a block or two to get to a bus line anyway, walking that bit more to get to the stop it…

No, it's not unavoidable. Just ditch the buses and switch to cars, soon to be self-driving.

Even the rush hour traffic is trivially solved by mild carpooling (small vans for 4-6 people).

Re: Bus stop balancing is fast, cheap, and effective

#338

Post by JoshTriplett »

njarboe wrote: post #331
JoshTriplett wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not feasible to have a bus stop right in front of every house. And this is why point-to-point transportation is almost always faster and more convenient, if you can afford to use it. (That load-bearing "if" is important, though.)

Self driving cars for hire (Waymo, Tesla, others) can be that point-to-point system that is affordable. We will just have to build tunnels to deal with the increase in traffic. Hopefully the Boring Company or someone else can get tunneling costs way down.

Hopefully someone else, so it actually happens and isn't overpromised and underdelivered.

(Also, tunnels are useful not just for the increase in traffic, but for moving car traffic away from non-car traffic, which makes both kinds of traffic safer, faster, and more efficient.)

Re: Bus stop balancing is fast, cheap, and effective

#339

Post by SoftTalker »

angmarsbane wrote: post #301
adrianN wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Berlin and strongly prefer the bike over the bus because buses are slow and unreliable. I wish we had a lot more bus lanes and aggressively towed cars blocking them. More subways would be even better though.

When I was in Mexico City I was blown away and inspired that their bus lanes were actually physically separate from car traffic, sometimes they were even elevated a foot or so alongside car traffic. It made the buses so much faster! I wish bus and bike lanes in the USA were equally separated from car traffic. Different color paint and intermittent bollards don't cut it. If something is worth doing, it's worth doing r…

Nice idea but it quickly runs up against budget realities.

Re: Bus stop balancing is fast, cheap, and effective

#340

Post by estebank »

moralestapia wrote: post #2

Very detailed analysis. I agree with the claim that "fewer stops, faster service" on the surface. However we'd have to see if that's truly the case, as cities have red lights and traffic, so the bus stops anyway ... I believe, taking this into account, the difference might not be that significant.

The difference between the SF 38 and the 38R which stops 1/3rd as much is 1/4th of the travel time in <5 miles.
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