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The Misuses of the University

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Re: The Misuses of the University

#21

Post by mandevil »

markus_zhang wrote: post #16

It is just part of the establishment. When the establishment withered it withered with it. It’s just a symptom of a larger, deeper problem.

Not just that the establishment, but the entire educational complex, from the large research universities like JHU to the community colleges, were built around a 1950s-1970's American economy and the society that supported that. And now that that is gone, what happens to all of the universities? They've been just as corrupted and degraded as the rest of it. My wife and I were talking last night about how Disneyland lines are the perfect metaphor for what has happened to American society.

From the 1950's to the 1990's there was basically no way to avoid standing in the lines, everyone was in it together and you just had to stand in the lines. Then in the 1990s they added FastPass and you could, if you were clever and planned a bit, skip some lines but you were still going to be standing in lines with everyone else, and they were free and reasonably fair process. Then in the 2010's they started to do book ahead FastPass and if you were staying in a hotel on site you could book all the good times for all the rides, to try and encourage hotel stays. And now with Lightning Lane's they are incentivized to make the line process so onerous to get you to fork over $25/person/ride to skip them. And that's where we are today: an enshitified product that is designed to give a good experience to the very wealthy, while making it worse for everyone else.

And that's the same path we've gone in entertainment, in housing, in education, in healthcare, in so much of modern American society.

Re: The Misuses of the University

#22

Post by bonsai_spool »

rd wrote: post #9

I recently graduated (class of '25), and the thing I heard most often about my school's management was that over the past couple of decades, they more closely resembled a real estate holding company than a research university. There's a great student op-ed about _a_ proposed solution (firing the deans): https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2022/11/29/anderson-burea...

> The thing I heard most often about my school's management was that over the past couple of decades, they more closely resembled a real estate holding company than a research university.

I feel a better question is what entities that are in continuous operation since the 1630s do not resemble a real estate holding company? If you analyze only the extremes of any distribution you'll find weirdness.

Re: The Misuses of the University

#23

Post by mandevil »

xhkkffbf wrote: post #19
PaulHoule wrote: post #2

I miss the Newseum, not least because it had this exhibit: https://www.motorious.com/articles/highlights/don-bolles-car...

I liked the Newseum too, if only for the daily newspaper front pages available out front each day. Those were amazing. But it had the same problem. They spent a fortune on the physical plant and never had the foot traffic to justify it.

As someone who volunteered in a museum right near the Newseum, their biggest problem was the competition. The Smithsonian and the National Gallery of Art being some of the best museums in the world, right across the street, with much better stuff and totally free was always going to be hard to compete with. The only private museum that has managed to survive is the International Spy Museum, which went all in on fun and interactives, and much less on education, and has a lot less prestigious footprint.

Re: The Misuses of the University

#24

Post by Tangurena2 »

noelwelsh wrote: post #14

When I was at university, my institution was investing $millions in building various new building. A grumbled to my supervisor, who explained to me that this was important to attracting new students. It's an unfortunate truth that decisions to attend a given university are often made based on an image in the student's (or their parents) head about what a university should look like, rather than things like academics.

I blame the "contest" started by the magazine US News and World Report, which started their college rating. This led to university execs aiming to raise their rating at the expense of education. Higher rankings meant higher bonuses for top employees - especially the president of the university. This race for ratings is why the cost of a university education has skyrocketed far faster than inflation.

Re: The Misuses of the University

#25

Post by impendia »

DesaiAshu wrote: post #12
rd wrote: post #9

I recently graduated (class of '25), and the thing I heard most often about my school's management was that over the past couple of decades, they more closely resembled a real estate holding company than a research university. There's a great student op-ed about _a_ proposed solution (firing the deans): https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2022/11/29/anderson-burea...

Having personally run a college P&L, this dodges the bigger sunk costs of higher education: 1. Old and expensive to maintain land 2. High cost of living for all staff (weighted heaviest towards faculty) 3. Ancillaries that are revenue negative, _very_ expensive, and inconsequential to the purpose of the education (eg. the lacrosse team and the Polo Club) It's nice to point fingers at the people who are taking very he…

I got curious, and looked up the Harvard Polo Club. Apparently it naturally faded away as polo declined in popularity, but then was revived in 2006.

I understand that, if you have a current and active polo club running, then you either have to keep it going or run the risk of pissing people off.

But, if I can ask you to speculate, why might Harvard have revived its club in 2006?

Re: The Misuses of the University

#26

Post by nyeah »

DesaiAshu wrote: post #12
rd wrote: post #9

I recently graduated (class of '25), and the thing I heard most often about my school's management was that over the past couple of decades, they more closely resembled a real estate holding company than a research university. There's a great student op-ed about _a_ proposed solution (firing the deans): https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2022/11/29/anderson-burea...

Having personally run a college P&L, this dodges the bigger sunk costs of higher education: 1. Old and expensive to maintain land 2. High cost of living for all staff (weighted heaviest towards faculty) 3. Ancillaries that are revenue negative, _very_ expensive, and inconsequential to the purpose of the education (eg. the lacrosse team and the Polo Club) It's nice to point fingers at the people who are taking very he…

How old is typical university land, compared to the average age of land in the same city?

Re: The Misuses of the University

#27

Post by djoldman »

Johns Hopkins University is not a university. Many other "Universities" are not universities either.

"Johns Hopkins Labs" would be a more accurate name as less than 10% of revenue is tuition related.

I'm not sure why folks including professors continue to view these places as primarily about teaching students or academics. These $100-$250 million building projects are pretty inconsequential when research grants and contracts bring in more than $4.5 billion per year.

Re: The Misuses of the University

#28

Post by Insanity »

PaulHoule wrote: post #11
Insanity wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'advanced culture' is in the eye of the beholder. At the time, Rome was an advanced culture and we have a bunch of details of their fall. Not to take away from your point - I agree and the current fall makes it more tangible.

The fall of Rome also took centuries, historians can't even agree on exactly when it began.

True for the empire, not true for the republic (which still took decades but not centuries)

Re: The Misuses of the University

#30

Post by rd »

bonsai_spool wrote: post #22
rd wrote: post #9

I recently graduated (class of '25), and the thing I heard most often about my school's management was that over the past couple of decades, they more closely resembled a real estate holding company than a research university. There's a great student op-ed about _a_ proposed solution (firing the deans): https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2022/11/29/anderson-burea...

> The thing I heard most often about my school's management was that over the past couple of decades, they more closely resembled a real estate holding company than a research university. I feel a better question is what entities that are in continuous operation since the 1630s do not resemble a real estate holding company? If you analyze only the extremes of any distribution you'll find weirdness.

This is true! I hadn't thought about it like this to be totally honest. It's hard to point fingers at old institutions, especially given they're mostly located in prime real estate locations across the country (Cambridge, Palo Alto, etc.), and it's not really their fault that they need land to operate.
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