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IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

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Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#751

Post by bawolff »

onion2k wrote: post #727
YZF wrote: post #667

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I don't know anything about how things work in situations like this, but logic would lead me to think a convoy of aid workers wouldn't be returning fire so shooting at them with all the shots coming from the IDF side might indicate some sort of mistake quite early in the encounter. The fact they carried on shooting for 5 minutes is either a signal that they knew and just didn't care, or that they're some of the worst…

I don't really think that follows.

5 minutes is a really short period of time, i can easily believe that a convoy of combatants might not return fire in that time period, especially if taken by surprise at night and the people shooting are under cover and far away so its not immediately clear where to even return fire to.

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#752

Post by RobertoG »

YZF wrote: post #667
Qem wrote: post #2

Full report: https://content.forensic-architecture.org/wp-content/uploads...

[flagged]

You forgot to mention that there were two separate incidents. That's why the thing took two hours. They shoot an ambulance, I suppose you could argue that was a mistake. They check the ambulance (at that moment they had to know that there were not fighters there). Later, when more help vehicles appeared they shoot everybody in them too. That's the five minutes shooting.

You forgot to mention that they destroyed the vehicles and they buried the dead with them in the sand. And that, was not made by the same people that killed the help workers.

You forgot to mention that they lie about what happened.

You forgot to mention that, after the investigation, one of the official was demoted, and that's it.

All this seems to point, not to a mistake, but to a pattern of behavior, in my opinion. Personally, I'm done with the 'mistakes', like blocking baby formula from entering Gaza and all that.

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#753

Post by tovej »

TurdF3rguson wrote: post #651
Vasbarlog wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What Israel is doing is genocide. The International Association of Genocide Scholars say so https://genocidescholars.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/IAGS... . Is there anyone who is arguing, in ”good faith” as you say, that the atrocities of October 7th were a genocide?

That was about a month before the ceasefire. I'm sure we're all very happy that's it's no longer the case.

The genocide still continues. They are still killing people, and are not letting people return to Gaza.

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#754

Post by bawolff »

kennywinker wrote: post #740
YZF wrote: post #715

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only clarity here is in the eyes of those who made their decision in advance and are cherry picking. Yes- There have been quite a few incidents but the percentage is still small. There were also many friendly fire incidents. All of these happen in every war. The difference is this war is being put under a microscope and there are powerful actors trying to push a narrative. It is the nature of how Hamas wages war…

> It is the nature of how Hamas wages war in Gaza that is driving the assumptions here When the bad guys use human shields, it’s on the “good guys” to somehow resist the “good guy” urge to blow the whole city up. Hamas has killed something in the order of 800 idf soldiers during this conflict, if we exclude the ones killed on oct 7th. In that same time at least 75,000 palestinians have been killed - most of which wer…

I think he's saying that this is par for the course for asymmetric conflicts with deeply rooted insurgent groups.

So if you are going to say the handling of this conflict has more to do with Israeli training/mindset/etc and is not related to the type of conflict, do you have other armies in mind that have fought similar conflicts and done better?

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#755

Post by moxifly7 »

throwaway3060 wrote: post #365
kombine wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally raise awareness about Ukraine and Palestine in equal measure. But there is fundamental difference: Israelis will stop their violence on Palestinians the minute they lose support of the US and Europ, whereas the West doesn't hold the same leverage over Russia.

I disagree with many parts of this narrative, but even this fundamental hypothesis that Israel will just give up without Western support, that there is absolute leverage, I have no idea where it comes from or what evidence suggests this. If Israel feels they need to do this, they will just source supplies from somewhere else. And everyone will be worse off for it.

A Cuba style embargo on Israel until they stop the genocide and ethnic cleansing of an indigenous population would be the end of the current direction of the Israeli establishment.

Look at the size of the country, the natural resources and where they are positioned.

They are dependent on Western imports for pretty much everything, and only export technology that Europe and the US can easily replace with domestic or other foreign sources.

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#756

Post by dijit »

jcranmer wrote: post #675
YZF wrote: post #667

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

When the first attack on an aid convoy to provoke outrage came out, I saw someone put it best: there is a difference between "war is chaos, and no matter how hard we try, some incidents regrettably occur" and "our rules of engagement are designed in such a manner to make these incidents almost certain." And the IDF... is pretty clearly in the latter category. > I imagine most of the armchair critics here have never b…

> Attempting to use this as a defense requires conceding that the default assumption is that someone is a terrorist until proven otherwise

All other things being equal, if your opponent engages actively in hiding among medical and press workers as a type of guerrilla warfare, then the reality does become this.

I'm trying to say this dispassionately because I'm aware that people get defensive, but lets say that you have to fight some enemy but they present as the most vulnerable of a population, how can you fight them without looking awful?

Though "it's complicated" is not, by itself, a conclusion - and neither is "better training" a sufficient answer to a problem this structurally difficult."

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#757

Post by dijit »

esseph wrote: post #661
HappyPanacea wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Why would an insurgent force against an occupier ever wear uniforms? Ever? Is there any case of this happening in history?

Pretty much all of them.

National Guard and HomeGuard in every allied country has a uniform.

The ones that don't are using what would be considered unlawful tactics these days.

You're an 'unlawful combatant' if you don't wear one: the Geneva Convention still technically applies to you, just not in any way you'd find comforting.

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#758

Post by yoavm »

sophacles wrote: post #334
bdhe wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and it quickly grew beyond any reason Why did it quickly grow?

Because there were children to starve. Brown children .

More than half of the Israeli Jews are "brown people" from the neighboring Arab countries.

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#759

Post by justacrow »

TurdF3rguson wrote: post #738
nagaiaida wrote: post #698

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if the ceasefire only applies when targeting civilians, was agreeing to a ceasefire in the first place thus an admission of targeting civilians?

[flagged]

It's been a while since I saw that movie, how many sons, daughters and neighbours of those people does he kill, maim and abuse?

Assuming he kills several, how many hospital workers trying to help them and journalists documenting his rampage does he kill?

I would feel sorry for all of those people.

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#760

Post by EvgeniyZh »

dang wrote: post #647
EvgeniyZh wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you remember any pro-Israeli posts you turned flags off for since the October 7 attack?

I can't remember virtually anything - this is not a joke - having one's brain be sandblasted by the firehose every day turns memory into a dodgy thing ( https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... ). I believe there have been some, though not as many. That's largely a function of the submission feed, i.e. which articles the community submits, upvotes, or flags. All we can do is respond case-by-cas…

Thanks for the answer (and what seems to be unflagging the comment). Having some experience moderating (of course, much smaller) communities I understand it's impossible to keep everyone satisfied.

I, of course, can't judge the intent or the effort. What I can say is that I read all captions of 150+ votes submission, rarely skipping any, and I saw 20+ pro-Palestine ones and zero pro-Israeli ones. I think this is quite objective measure.

At some point I thought it might be intentional but now I think it is just bias amplification: these submission are flagged too fast and upvoted too slow to get anywhere.

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