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IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

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Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#431

Post by yosamino »

rainmaking wrote: post #342

[flagged]

I find that a good sniff-test in politics is to change the actor in a claim to be Jewish and then consider if that make the claim an antisemitic conspiracy theory. Works surprisingly well.

For example:

> facing an enemy [Hamas] who does everything they can to get their own people killed to make you look bad

Imagine the "enemy" in that sentence was not "Hamas", but "The Jews" - that would be a very antisemitic narrative, and in a similar way that antisemitism has nothing really to do with Jews, but rather with antisemites what you are writing here just shows your hatred.

> does everything to get their own people killed

for the purposed of making the killer look bad, is such a naïve take on this. Do you think netanyahu and his cronies care about "looking bad" ? To whom ? That ship has sailed since at least the 90ies.

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#432

Post by ceejayoz »

bamboozled wrote: post #425
ceejayoz wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don’t like it but it was a war. I don't disagree. There's a reason we have a thing called "war crimes". (In fact, much of the concept stems from a conflict very significant to Israel.) > I heard almost no one complain about the “war on terror” I don't think you were listening very hard. > Do you whine about Hiroshima ? If we did it today, with F-35s and precision weaponry and drones available to us? Absolutely.

If we did it today, with F-35s and precision weaponry and drones available to us? Absolutely. I saw Israel using very precision weapons too. Warning people to leave areas etc. I even saw "live leak" style videos where people in Gaza were filming buildings because they knew precisely when they'd be demolished. None of that was good enough though, clearly...war sucks, best to avoid starting one in the first place if yo…

> I saw Israel using very precision weapons too.

I would suggest that fairly indiscriminate use of precision weapons isn't quite what I'm referring to.

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#433

Post by richardfeynman »

ceejayoz wrote: post #394
joyeuse6701 wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> I’m not sure why the Palestinians… > That’s Hezbollah, Hamas… Sleight of hand happening here.

There's no sleight of hand, just a horrifying reality. It's not just Hamas and Hezbollah. Civilians from Gaza participated in October 7 and poll after poll shows broad palestinian support for the destruction of Israel.

Support for Hamas itself is waning in Gaza due to their brutality, but Hamas began the war with broad support for their genocidal aims.

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#434

Post by ok123456 »

richardfeynman wrote: post #429
ok123456 wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hamas didn't "weaponize every hospital in Gaza."

Finally, a refutable claim. Can you name me a hospital in Gaza that didn't have a Hamas presence?

[flagged]

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#435

Post by idiotsecant »

LorenPechtel wrote: post #401
idiotsecant wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You saw pictures of a hospital. This must be the definition of pedantry. The point is *Israel deliberately destroyed an unconscionable number of hospitals, killing enormous amounts of real-life civilian people, actual humans like you and I. People with daughters, husbands, friends, people who were just as valuable as anyone else.

Pictures of a basically untouched hospital. The destruction is way overstated. And let's look at the numbers. Hamas numbers are fantasy but let's pretend they're accurate. ~70k. I have not seen anyone contesting the Israeli database being combatants. ~9k. Note that even granting the most extreme claims this is still better than what western powers typically do--and it's in an unevacuated urban environment which is th…

You might be the only person on the Internet still inexplicably defending the Israeli government on this.

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#436

Post by ceejayoz »

richardfeynman wrote: post #433
ceejayoz wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m not sure why the Palestinians… > That’s Hezbollah, Hamas… Sleight of hand happening here.

There's no sleight of hand, just a horrifying reality. It's not just Hamas and Hezbollah. Civilians from Gaza participated in October 7 and poll after poll shows broad palestinian support for the destruction of Israel. Support for Hamas itself is waning in Gaza due to their brutality, but Hamas began the war with broad support for their genocidal aims.

And would Israeli polling about Palestinians justify their deaths, too?

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#437

Post by tartoran »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #383
troupo wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two things are valid at once: - Hamas is a terrorist organization that planned and executed a mass terror campaign, fully knowing and hoping for the reaction. And boasting about it continuously and repeatedly. - Israel's response was hasty, unplanned, purely driven by emotion at the beginning, and it quickly grew beyond any reason in the next weeks.

Hamas is a terror organisation funded, and quite possibly created, by far-right nationalist elements in the Israeli government to weaken the Palestinian authority and create a pretext for the occupation of Gaza. Netanyahu is on the record funnelling money through Qatar. He said it was for "humanitarian aid" - which would be more credible if it wasn't such an extraordinary and unusual outbreak of concern for Palestini…

We should stop using this term terror/terrorist, it's lost any meaning. If Hamas are terrorists because they're terrorizing Israeli population then so are Israelis' IDF or whatever force kills other country's population. And the list extends beyond that. To paint a resisting force/army as terrorists is just charged language to emotionally manipulate and pollute discourse. It would be more useful to put in balance what each side is fighting for.

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#438

Post by basilgohar »

richardfeynman wrote: post #427
ceejayoz wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By contrast, Israel has not dropped an aerial bomb on any hospital building in Gaza. An oddly specific claim. Hamas hasn't killed any Israeli with a turtle, either. I'm not sure why destroying hospitals with tanks, missiles, and sappers is better than "aerial bombs". Could you elaborate?

Yes, it's specific. It's also a fact that is in direct contradistinction to the OP's claim. Israel has also not fired any missiles at hospitals, with one exception (a small diameter bomb aimed specifically at Hamas that caused minimal damage).

Israel is an oppressive, genocidal, apartheid illegally occupying force. You can't compare the two sides.

Palestinians have been under this assault by Israel and Zionists in general for nearly a century. Defending anything Israel does at this point is indefensible. Their context has ALWAYS been wrong and they've been caught lying so many times it's more accurate to believe exactly the opposite of anything the IDF says.

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