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IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

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Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#251

Post by cess11 »

dralley wrote: post #227
cholantesh wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But not the video in the OP which demonstrates that the IDF were, in fact firing on aid workers and refugees as they had been accused of, and certainly not the hours of footage of the IDF brazenly taking human shields over the years while insisting they didn't, or the reports of the IDF arming settlers. Curious that you can't enumerate any of these, and you're happy to take at face value a claim the IDF makes but doe…

Independent 3rd parties were brought in to verify, though. I already said I don't condone any instances of legitimate war crimes. I don't think enumerating everything that has ever happened by either side is very useful. But it's a fact that both sides lie flagrantly about atrocities. Lots of the footage in the early days of the war that was claimed to be from Gaza was actually recycled from the Syrian civil war. If…

Can you link to those reports?

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#252

Post by mhb »

expedition32 wrote: post #229
ceejayoz wrote: post #127

I remember when folks here were shilling the "Israel promises they'd never bomb a hospital" and "Hamas is lying about the death toll" lines. All the hospitals are now rubble, and the IDF quietly let it slip that the death toll is legit recently. https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2026-01-29/ty-article/.p... There's damning video of this specific incident, recovered from the dead. I suspect subsequent massacres made…

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Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#253

Post by whatshisface »

georgemcbay wrote: post #177
heyitsmedotjayb wrote: post #161

Mike Huckabee said yesterday that all the land from the Nile to the Euphrates should be taken by Israel. That would involve a cleansing of hundreds of millions of people.

Huckabee is a Christian Zionist. I'm sure he sees the death and displacement of millions as a small price to pay to bring about the Rapture in his lifetime.

This is commonly misconstrued as christianity, but in christian tradition it would bring about the coming of the antichrist, massive persecutions globally, and armageddon.

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#254

Post by ceejayoz »

bamboozled wrote: post #247
ceejayoz wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. You can't blow up entire hospitals and kill patients just because someone's storing stuff in the basement.

I don’t like it but it was a war. October 7 was a declaration of war. I heard almost no one complain about the “war on terror” and I’m sure similar collateral occurred. For some reason people forget the pearl harbour event that happened before it all kicked off ? Not trying to say it’s fine to bomb a hospital, but it doesn’t seem fair to single out the IDF. Do you whine about Hiroshima ?

> I don’t like it but it was a war.

I don't disagree.

There's a reason we have a thing called "war crimes". (In fact, much of the concept stems from a conflict very significant to Israel.)

> I heard almost no one complain about the “war on terror”

I don't think you were listening very hard.

> Do you whine about Hiroshima ?

If we did it today, with F-35s and precision weaponry and drones available to us? Absolutely.

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#255

Post by woodruffw »

ebbi wrote: post #182
coolca wrote: post #149

Disgusted by this, I hope that the good people of Israel realize what their hideous regime is doing and stop it. I know for sure that

The problem is majority of Israeli citizens think the government isn't doing enough. Cue the citizens that protested to stop the aid trucks from going into Gaza. The citizens that protested because the Israeli military arrested (after a lot of international pressure) soldiers that were caught raping Palestinian prisoners. They were protesting for the right of soldiers to continue to rape.

> The citizens that protested because the Israeli military arrested (after a lot of international pressure) soldiers that were caught raping Palestinian prisoners.

The people you're talking about are Israel's far-right. I don't think you can index from them onto the median Israeli's political views anymore than you could reasonably index from a member of Hamas's armed wing onto the median Palestinian.

(A recurring theme in both I/P and MENA conflicts more generally is that political minorities - WB settlers in Israel, for example, manage to wield disproportionate power and induce chaos and strife across the region.)

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#256

Post by cess11 »

suzzer99 wrote: post #214
Vasbarlog wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> problem is that both sides lie flagrantly And yet one side is committing genocide.

And one side started it by killing 1,200 civilians and kidnapping 250. Which doesn't justify genocide. But it does factor into the response when one side is governed by a death cult that has no problem letting scores of their own civilians die if it furthers their cause.

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Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#257

Post by wk_end »

ceejayoz wrote: post #172
weird_tentacles wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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The rules aren't written by plucky revolutionaries, but the big powers. They, thus, fairly often favor people who fight like the big powers. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/17/can-hospitals-... > Article 8 of the Rome statute, which established the international criminal court (ICC) in The Hague, defines a long list of war crimes including “intentionally directing attacks against buildings dedicated to rel…

> The rules aren't written by plucky revolutionaries, but the big powers. They, thus, fairly often favor people who fight like the big powers.

I think this is one of the ugliest things about this particular war. While the IDF unquestionably committed various war crimes over the course of the conflict anyway, the bulk of what people found objectionable very well might have been done in total accordance with international law. Despite many failures and excesses, the IDF at least paid lip service to trying to do that, as a policy.

It's just that, the reality is, the rules are based on entirely different assumptions about how war is carried out. If they might lead to something resembling a "humane" war (hah!) when fought between, say, a relatively evenly matched France and Germany, they're quite ineffective at preventing a humanitarian catastrophe when you have a modern force attempting to siege an ultra-dense, militarized enclave run by an organization with no real hope of a conventional victory or interest in the well-being of its civilians.

And so you end up with this absurd situation where the world witnessed, over and over again, unimaginably horrible things being inflicted on the population of Gaza, and the Israelis responding - if we're being charitable, not entirely unreasonably - "Why are you getting mad at us? We're following the rules!"

It's just that, clearly, the rules are insufficient to match people's moral sentiments.

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#260

Post by zorked »

mattmaroon wrote: post #210
jajuuka wrote: post #165

I just wanna say it's nice to see more people finally waking up and smelling the ashes. I can only hope in the future this genocide will be studied to better understand the main points of failure to not repeat such a widely event covered event.

It’s strange to me when otherwise intelligent people call this genocide. Genocide is an attempt to exterminate an entire people. Israel is a nuclear armed nation fighting against the equivalent of Dayton, OH. If genocide were the goal this war would have lasted one day. Collective punishment, or a long term ethnic cleansing would be much more accurate, but you’re just repeating what you read unthinkingly if you say g…

Your are using an argument similar to the repugnant logic of Holocaust deniers. They use claims that Germany could have easily killed Jews /even faster/ as an argument to claim that they didn't commit genocide /at all/.
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