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Denver dumps Flock, awards contract to Axon

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Re: Denver dumps Flock, awards contract to Axon

#31

Post by helpfulclippy »

thaumaturgy wrote: post #15

Here in Oregon, I very nearly managed to get some decent legislation drafted that would have required a number of strong data protections from ALPR vendors. Axon interfered heavily with that process and -- after the legislative workgroup had well concluded and just a couple of hours before the Senate committee was to vote on it -- managed to neuter one of the key protections in the bill. Axon is not "better" than Flo…

I was aware of your bill and had some activity related to it. Kudos to you and EOE for doing great work! Sorry your bill got fucked. :(

I was seethed by what happened to it, and sadly unsurprised by the attitude LE took. I want restraint, but I felt like so many concessions had already been made to get it into work session. E2EE was important, but we're still left with two ends that are deeply untrustworthy, and a bunch of regulations about data governance that I don't trust the state to be able to meaningfully oversee... especially among a patchwork of LEAs across the state. When lapses inevitably happen, I think they're going to mostly undetected, and those that are will be quietly swept under the rug without consequence to anyone.

Re: Denver dumps Flock, awards contract to Axon

#32

Post by helterskelter »

thaumaturgy wrote: post #27
helterskelter wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fellow Oregonian here. Have you got any local resources? I've been writing to my reps, framing ALPR's and cameras as a tool the feds will coopt, but I'm pretty sure nobody reads anything anymore.

We've got lots of local resources! I've been in the capitol about half of the last two weeks, my partner is there right now, we've been working closely with ACLU Oregon and National, a couple of other legal firms are keeping a close eye on this, and we've built a grassroots network with people from Eugene, Springfield, Portland, Bend, Florence, and more. Also, your Reps do read your correspondence, and there's a crit…

Sorry, I don't like mixing my on- and offline identities, but your site is a great resource and exactly what I was looking for. I'll definitely be reaching out to my reps about SB1516.

If you don't mind, what's the current situation with Flock in Eugene? Last I heard was that EPD was ending their relationship but it wasn't clear if the cameras were actually going to be removed. I believe Springfield has already gotten rid of theirs, and Florence voted to keep them.

(By the way, thank you, you guys are doing invaluable work)

Re: Denver dumps Flock, awards contract to Axon

#33

Post by philips »

thaumaturgy wrote: post #26
nxobject wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which legislator were you working with? (I'm not going to look the bill up up on OLIS, if that's going to dox you.) Funnily enough, Portland (apart from big box parking lots) seems to be empty of those. I remember them trying to push ShotSpotter and being slapped down by the city's progressive wing.

I think at this point getting doxed is an inevitability. ;-) I worked most closely with Senator Floyd Prozanski. He's my local senator, and was in many ways an ideal fit for this. After we successfully kicked Flock out of Eugene, Springfield, and Lane County, he reached out to form a legislative workgroup. Over a few months of effort, we developed SB1516: https://olis.oregonlegislature.gov/liz/2026R1/Measures/Overv..…

Do you have a delta on the bill after Axon intervened?

Re: Denver dumps Flock, awards contract to Axon

#35

Post by thaumaturgy »

philips wrote: post #33
thaumaturgy wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think at this point getting doxed is an inevitability. ;-) I worked most closely with Senator Floyd Prozanski. He's my local senator, and was in many ways an ideal fit for this. After we successfully kicked Flock out of Eugene, Springfield, and Lane County, he reached out to form a legislative workgroup. Over a few months of effort, we developed SB1516: https://olis.oregonlegislature.gov/liz/2026R1/Measures/Overv..…

Do you have a delta on the bill after Axon intervened?

-12 is what was queued up for the vote up until 2:30 pm that afternoon: https://olis.oregonlegislature.gov/liz/2026R1/Downloads/Prop...

-14 materialized, Prozanski called for a vote on -12, Senator Braodman voted with Republicans against -12, and then they unanimously voted in -14: https://olis.oregonlegislature.gov/liz/2026R1/Downloads/Prop...

The sole difference between the two is that -14 removes the following language: "'End-to-end encryption’ means a method of data encryption that ensures only the law enforcement agency that owns the captured license plate data possesses the capability to decrypt, access or grant access to the captured license plate data."

This was just the latest move in a long, long series of behind-the-scenes work by Axon to undermine the entire bill throughout its development.

There's a lot more I'm eager to say about that process, but we have some work to do before it all can be made public.

Re: Denver dumps Flock, awards contract to Axon

#38

Post by SlightlyLeftPad »

thaumaturgy wrote: post #29
anigbrowl wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Axon interfered heavily with that process and -- after the legislative workgroup had well concluded and just a couple of hours before the Senate committee was to vote on it -- managed to neuter one of the key protections in the bill. This is why I'm increasingly jaded with 'get involved with your local legislative process!' proponents. If you don't have the ability to lobby around the clock and make campaign or in-ki…

We need more good people getting involved to be able to change the way this all works. And, in less than a year, we've developed a ton of political capital and we're still gaining ground. So, I would sincerely encourage anyone to join this effort, or similar efforts in their area, and just do whatever you can tolerate. But also, having just been through this process (for my first time!): however terrible you think th…

This is something I would LOVE to get involved with to support. At the end of the day though, it’s not something I have a lot of extra unbillable time for and that’s really what the problem is.

Re: Denver dumps Flock, awards contract to Axon

#39

Post by kylehotchkiss »

fusslo wrote: post #7
tptacek wrote: post #4

This is going to happen in a lot of places that aren't large enough to make news: people dumping Flock over bad publicity, and simply installing ALPR cameras from vendors smart enough not to get themselves embroiled in politics.

AXON seems to be really good about not pushing things too far. I don't know if they lobby/amplify the need for police body cameras, however. Even that, IMO, doesn't have the stench of evil They must be making huge profits, assuming every bodycam needs some kind of recurring revenue (for evidence.com, maintenance, replacements). BUT as far as I can tell, they are also taking the judicial requirements very seriously. U…

Standardized bodycam implementation nationwide was a fantastic improvement to policing post-2020. Axon seems to be king of that coast to coast. Watching bodycam video on YouTube has improved my perception of the police from "often unethical jerks" to "wow, I can't believe the nonsense these people have to deal with". Asshole cops now have to justify their behavior before judges and their bosses in a way maybe they didn't before.

Freedom of Information requests to axon seem to be given our somewhat freely given how large the bodycam genre on Youtube is.

Re: Denver dumps Flock, awards contract to Axon

#40

Post by GorbachevyChase »

officeplant wrote: post #23

Evil Corp B has been demoted, Evil Corp A to take up the mantle.

The computer vision cat is too far out of the bag. I don’t know how you can feasibly legislate that people can’t own a camera and send its output to OpenCV. Police already read plates with their eyes and can record those observations. The state of mass surveillance is so much worse than road cameras. This feels like a waste of everyone’s time.
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